Help needed with buying advice after viewing an 850R

[DomF1]

Evening all,

After selling my Volvo 940 I have been left with a Volvo shaped hole in my life… a friend of mine is looking to sell on their Volvo 850 R (approx 120,000 miles) so I naturally jumped at the chance to have a look. Rather than this being a journal of my Volvo life I do actually have a question, well a few to be fair…

After looking at the car (using the very helpful buyers guide) I’ve noted the following issues and I wanted to see what people would see as real red flags (i.e. walk, if not run, away) as I’ve never owned an 850 before (but very much want to and am happy to get my hands dirty if worthwhile!):

I completed a compression test (from cold, dry, with WOT) and gained the following results

1) 138
2) 158
3) 150
4) 162
5) 140

To me there seems to be some fluctuation on the numbers and they also seem lower than the owners manual suggests – I didn’t have time to do a wet test unfortunately. How do these results sit with you? Is there indication here of too much wear to make the car not worthwhile? On a slightly related point; there aren’t any bubbles in the reservoir or overheating so I can’t see any obvious head gasket issue signs.

The pictures here show the strut mounts, to me there looks to be an issue here but I’m not so great with suspension components – I looked on here briefly and I could turn the tops by hand which seems to suggest bad news – what would I be looking at here?









On running the car and pulling out the dipstick I noticed there was smoke coming out – this seems to suggest issues with the PCV, I also noted some smoke from the exhaust on idle although I have a feeling this is more likely to be turbo wear as it looks original. The PCV seems to be a weak point if not addressed so to me, this seems like a fairly straight forward fix… I could well be wrong though…

After seeing the smoke from the dipstick I tried to see the rear seal which seems to be the next weak point in the chain and an expensive fix according to the buyers guide – there was oil here but it looked like it had been there for a while and without jacking it up I couldn’t really get stuck in and find out more as it was so dirty (I’ve attached pictures although they are fairly bad angles and I don’t think I’ve captured the right area, there seems to be some instant gasket residue?). There also seemed to be oil at the front (in the last pic) but I don’t know where this is from and would appreciate any ideas…











So, what I’m asking the forum for is whether, bearing the above points in mind and that’s its an R - am I going to have a money pit on my hands or are they are all fairly common and can be fixed with the right time (and money) so I should just go for it and get back into an ovlov. What kind of price would you be thinking as well?

[barrybritcher]

the compression test seems JUST about within the 10% variance, but without a manual in front of me i'm not sure what values volvo expect.

maybe try again with a battery tender on there?

the PCV on the S60 (similar?) isnt too hard just time consuming.

But all these faults could be a good negotiating tool?

[barrybritcher]

Measure the compression

S152296 Measure compression with the engine at operating temperature and wide open throttle (WOT)
Normal value B5234T MPa 1.1-1.3
Note! Engine at operating temperature, wide open throttle (WOT) and starter motor turning at 4.2 - 5.0 r/s (250 - 300 rpm).
Reinstall removed components.

[barrybritcher]

so in psi thats 159 to 188

[barrybritcher]

VIDA says do it hot - so that will be the difference I would imagine

[Rich850R]

total money pit, i wouldn't touch that with a barge pole, we own one.

Once you are in you are in, if you do have very deep pockets then go for it

[Gonzobard]

I can’t comment on the car you are looking at but can tell you about my experience of buying an 850R (to replace a ‘12 plate Passat which was dull). I bought a ‘97 850 R with 145,000 miles. Good bits - new wings, engine rebuild with new rings, turbo re-built, new B4 dampers, converted to manual. Bad bits - in need of general tlc, subsequently replaced heater matrix, springs all round and new cat, paintwork marked in places, couple of dents need pulling, not on original alloys. I have really enjoyed the car so far, it looks good, I like the interior, has a stainless exhaust which is louder than stock and I enjoy the noise! It is certainly fun to drive. Rather than a reasonable R I had also thought about looking for a really nice T5 as Given that a reasonable R is likely to need work, a good T5 can be upgraded with the same money (re-mapped ECU, lowered etc.). I have spent money on mine, but no more than the Passat has cost me in depreciation over 18 months. Oh, and my wife hates the Volvo!

[Volvo6]

Loads of good advice here.

Personally I've come to the conclusion that with these cars now being c.25 years old, there are not any right or wrong answers to whether one should 'walk away' etc or not, unless there are some obvious terminal signs.

If I were looking for a 850R right now there would be very little that would put me off a car, assuming the price was right. As others have said, terminal engine failure is rare. Although the oil leak is concerning, with the relatively low mileage of the one you are looking it seems unlikely it is something that cannot be fixed or mitigated. The condition of the top mounts suggests that the car has not been well looked after, but again the effects of neglect can normally be fixed.

I have sometimes consciously bought a car needing a bit of TLC knowing that it would probably end up costing more in the long run than paying a bit more for a nicer car up front. The upside is the lower price and the fun of doing it up. The P80 Volvo population is increasingly polarising between sheds that haven't quite found the scrap heap yet and minters that are being cherished and increasingly go for money that would have been absurd a few years ago.

This one seems somewhere between the two, but probably worth saving. Have a good look around at what else is available, but if you don't want to spend a lot getting a mint one, I'd go for it with eyes open and knowing it will cost a bit to make it back into a nice motor. Should you need to spend on it gradually and be a bit selective as you go, it is probably unlikely to leave you in a cloud by the side of the road as a result.

Don't know how much your friend wants for it, but I wouldn't pay more than £2k.

The nice T5 vs. R is also a very good point, all depends on how much you want the 'R' factor really. Similarly, the later S60/V70R are really nice cars, but they don't (for me at least) have the same appeal as the P80 platform.

[Gonzobard]

Pricing cars is always difficult and can only ever be what the car is worth to you. Before I bought my R I went to look at a 100,000 mile manual T5 - it was unmolested, I would say in good condition but needed some cosmetics, leather treatment, PCV etc. It was on e-bay, it sold for £2,700. I think the reaction on here would be that it was over-priced, but someone was prepared to pay it. When most of my mates are driving new cars on hp or pcp, I think these are still cheap cars to buy and run.

[acshortt5]

From my experience it is far more cost effective to pay more up front to get a car that has been looked after rather than buy and do up.

Depends on your budget though - if the only way to get there money wise is to buy a cheaper car and gradually replace things over time as money allows then fair enough if you are dead set on having a particular car.

Having said that it all depends on what your priorities are as well. e.g. I bought my MX5 which most would describe as a shed as it had done 100k miles and didn't look like anything had been changed during it's life apart from brake pads and tyres however I was buying it for purely a weekend/track day car and quite happy to pay less up front for the car as I was going to overhaul everything, replace the suspension, brakes etc anyway and would be doing the vast majority of work myself. In addition I knew I wouldn't be having to undo anyone's previous bodges.

For a daily driver I would look to get the most looked after/lowest mileage/youngest car I could afford.

Going back to 850's costs for parts (assuming they aren't discontinued which seems to be creeping in more and more) are fairly reasonable with good aftermarket support. However this particular car looks very much like my MX5 when I bought it - it's fine to buy for the right price if you want a project but you are going to be replacing a lot of parts and if you aren't doing the work yourself it is going to add up to a lot very quickly.

The oil leak(s) could be from a large number of places. Most likely are the cam seals on the throttle body end of the engine (about £30 each for the seals and 2 hours max to change - easy to do). Turbo return pipe seals.
At the front it could be the oil cooler lines (they leak from the crimped joints - these are expensive parts). If you have a big turbo oil leak then it could also be oil dripping out of the weep hole of the intercooler.
The cam seals can leak without the PCV being blocked from personal experience....
I'd also ask what type of oil has been used - if it's too thin or even fully synthetic that can lead to leaks. 10W40 semi is ideal.

I have to disagree with the people suggesting the S60R - with those they are a potential money pit on a whole other level. Unlike the 850's many parts are exclusive to the S60R such as the brakes and shocks and are therefore considerably more expensive (as they are made in much fewer numbers).
They also have far more electronics/sensors which are IMO more things to go wrong. If you are going to work on it yourself you WILL need VIDA/DICE. They have major fundamental problems such as the engine block cracking, the 4wd angle gear failing, the boot space is appalling, they can rust along the tops of the doors behind the seals, the interior feels more cramped (especially in the back) and the turning circle is more akin to a cruise liner.
It's why I'm sticking with my S70 although the turning circle on mine isn't brilliant.