bi-fuels and main stealers

[MrP]

right, am comming to the conclusion that the only way to get my motor running right is to visit the main stealers local to me.

has anyone with a bifuel (s/v40 or s60/v70/s80's) had any dealings with a main dealer and a bi-fuel and if so what was the outcomes.

were there problems with arse/elbow differenciation, or did they have a clue?

cheers

[capt jack]

Hmmm. I'm guessing you're car isn't running right. If you can tell us a bit more about your car and the problems you've been experiencing we might be able to help some more. In the meantime some thoughts for you:

LPG is an excellent alternative to petrol. LPG cars that are set up properly will perform every bit as well as the petrol equivalents, but at a much lower fuel cost.

Some makes are much better as LPG cars than others. My understanding is that Volvos, SAABs, Rovers, Range Rovers, and Vauxhalls are good with LPG. I'm also lead to believe that Fords, Mercs and most Japanese cars are not so good- some because of engine wear issues, and some because of ECU conflicts.

A Volvo main dealer will see relatively few factory bi-fuels, although they will have a suitably trained techie, plus access to the right tools, spares and data. Presumably your car is more than 3 years old, which means that it's not a current model, which means that again, it's not really what the main dealer is interested in.

The bi-fuel part of the set up is relatively straightforward. You'll have a tank, a regulator, a fuel rail, a switch, and an ECU to control it all.

There are some things you can quite easily do for yourself.

The spark plugs and other electric bits - my 100,000 mile LPG experience is that LPG eats spark plugs, and doesn't like the multi-electrode type. Go for Volvo original or better still Bosch Super Plus single point plugs. Make sure the leads are in tip-top condition too. LPG puts a greater demand on the electrics, and tired leads are sure to let you down. My guess is that your car has individual coils, with no rotor or dissy cap, but if you do have a conventional rotor and dissy cap you would be well advised to get them renewed.

Now you'll need to think about who to trust with the LPG bits. As a minimum I'd guess that your LPG filter could do with changing, and you regulator re-setting. This needs to be done by an LPG techie. You could take it to a Volvo dealer - but check first to see how well-up they are on LPG.

Or you could go to an independent LPG specialist. My personal recommendation would be Autogas 2000 at Thirsk - see my other posts on here. I don't have any connection with them other than as a 100% satisfied customer. Their phone number is 01845 523 213.

Hope all this is helpful!

Cheers

Jack

[GavinC]

Or you could go to an independent LPG specialist. My personal recommendation would be Autogas 2000 at Thirsk - see my other posts on here. I don't have any connection with them other than as a 100% satisfied customer. Their phone number is 01845 523 213.

I WOULD UNRESERVEDLY SECOND CAPT JACK'S RECOMMENDATION!

[MrP]

hi guys,

as detailed in other threads on here ( http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=58524 ) and on other lpg forums i have a '02 v70 bifuel auto with 80,000 on it.

the car has been spluttering over the last 6 months or more, its had a new regulator fitted by http://www.agpl.co.uk/ which seemed to fix some of the problem, however i regurlarly get some stuttering under power, which has now turned into stalling, and i also get a problem when i try to accelerate and get nothing what so ever.

its been to an LPG specalist a few times now, however as they dont have a volvo computer to read the codes and find out what the systems doing, there reduced to guessing from my descriptions and what they find when they are driving it.

hence i ant to try my local volvo dealer, my costme more, but i need to get this fixed before i take it to the local scrap yard and pay them to take it off my hands!!

i may give the guy a thirsk a go, but if he cant fix it in a day then its get rather inconvient

[JezF]

Stutteringand lack of power I'd lkely to be a mix of poor fuel pressure and running lean.does your car break into petrol at the top end?

[MrP]

na, it never reverts to petrol, just stalls

anyway, its now booked in at the local volvo garage to be looked at.

had to pick myself up off the floor at £95+vat an hour though!

better be fixed perfectly and in double quick time other wise i'll be firing emails off complaining at the price/service. mind you, i loved the way they that they said they dont charge for a curtosy car unlike others!!

[JezF]

Mr P, I would honestly get the main dealer to read the codes and then go to an independent, that labour rate is daylight robbery.

[Bigcheese1]

Hi Mr P,

I too, have suffered the stuttering/cutting-out problem with my S60 bi-fuel. It seems this is quite a common problem. The first time it happened, I was coming to the end of a hundred odd mile journey, braked to turn left into the side road and the engine cut out with associated loss of power steering and brake assistance. As it happened this wasn’t a problem but you wouldn’t want it to happen when braking in an emergency situation!

The car will run faultlessly for hundreds of miles and then suddenly start playing up if there’s the slightest bend, change in gradient or speed (roundabouts can be a bit of a nightmare). Reluctantly I have been forced to go to the main-stealers. They have been through the usual stuff I’ve read about from other owners ie changing the throttle box, software updates and having the LPG fuel distributor cleaned.

My advice would be to avoid the main dealers if you can because:
1. Yes they will fleece you (I’ve tried 3 different Volvo garages so far and have vowed never to go to any of them ever again).
2. I don’t believe that either they or Volvo actually know what the solution to this problem is. Apparently Volvo usually recommend replacement of the LPG fuel distributor but the cost of this is astronomical and doesn’t necessarily seem to provide a long term cure.

After having the fuel distributor cleaned I was told that the problem wasn’t completely cured but was still charged royally for the privilege. Sure enough a few hundred miles down the road and the car was playing up again.

A Possible Cure?

Having sworn never to return to the main stealers I started to do some digging around. The symptoms I was getting seemed to bare some resemblance to problems experienced on petrol cars when the oxygen sensor is contaminated with high silicon levels contained in some cheap supermarket fuel. It occurred to me that just before my recent bout of problems I had filled the petrol tank up with Tescos petrol. I reasoned that, although the car runs fine on petrol, it could be contaminated petrol causing the car to fail when switching to LPG (since LPG has a lower calorific value and is more difficult to ignite than petrol this is the first place any problems are likely to show up).

To test my theory I decided to run the car on petrol to empty out the Tescos stuff and then try another brand. So I continued on petrol until most of it was used up and then switched to LPG, the car was running worse than ever giving some credence to my theory that petrol contamination was causing the problem. I then filled the petrol tank with Shell Super, of course the problem didn’t disappear immediately but it didn’t take too long for the car to start running like a dream again.

It’s too early in my experiment to know whether this is in fact a cure or just pure coincidence but I would be interested to hear what sort of petrol other bi-fuel drivers use and whether they’ve had similar problems.

[capt jack]

Very interesting story Bigcheese. Interesting too that you'd filled up with Tesco petrol

When I got my V70 converted 110,000 miles ago, I was told never to have more than a few gallons of petrol in the tank, otherwise I might get running problems. The reason I was given is that the petrol does not stay fresh for very long, and as it's only used for the first two or three miles of any journey, petrol from a complete fill up may sit in the tank for months and months - with plenty of time for it to deteriorate.

I never thought to question this advice at the time, I've always just stuck to it. In nearly 4 years now, I've never had more than 5 gallons in the tank. I buy petrol maybe once every six weeks or so.

On reflection, the advice can't have been to prevent rust in the tank (currently a big problem with my 72 1800ES) because the V70 tank is plastic.

Questions for the techies out there:

How fast does petrol 'go off'?;

Can using a premium-grade petrol address the apparent O2 sensor problem caused by cheap petrol?

On your point about main stealers, remember that they actually see relatively few bi-fuels, especially if the car is more than 3 years old, so it's hardly surprising if they perhaps give the impression that they aren't sure what they're doing! What they are really interested in is 'servicing' new cars that aren't likely to go wrong anyway and taking £80 or £90 per hour from you for the privilege.

Cheers

Jack

[Bigcheese1]

Good point about having a full tank of petrol Jack and one I must admit I hadn't considered. I have experienced this effect when storing petrol for a lawnmower and was very surprised to find the petrol does seem to go "stale". This wasn't a factor with my bi-fuel problems though, since the lpg started playing up as soon as I filled up with the Tescos petrol. I guess if you had old petrol in your tank you might experience some starting problems though.

Looking at your 110k on lpg, I'm beginning to think that maybe I should have gone for an lpg conversion rather than a factory bi-fuel. That way I would have had the benefits of that turbo power and if I needed any repairs done, they would be a lot cheaper.