Would you buy another Volvo?

[TimS]

Originally Posted by cbarrow

Sadly no,
...
Sorry Volvo. A real shame...

My views too. I've owned Volvos for 22 years. Two V70s, both bought new, still have one. Probably not good business for Volvo though.

[capt jack]

I'm very sad to say it, but my latest Volvo - a 2012 model V70 D5 Geartronic isn't a patch on Volvos of old.

It's one redeeming feature is the impressive 46mpg that it unfailingly returns, oh and the electric tailgate is a hoot, but these things don't make me want to go out and buy another Volvo.

Why? Well, it's just not as well engineered as older Volvos, the engine is more than a little vocal, the estate load bay is nowhere nears big as it should be, many of the plastics are decidedly flimsy, the ride is jittery, there are way too many buttons on the dashboard, and the parking brake is a pain.

The computerised wizardry is impressive, but I dread the day anything goes wrong. I could well see the car written off as uneconomical to repair should one of its many computer functions fail.

I do wonder if a manufacturer was brave enough to launch a modern equivalent of the 240 estate just how well it would sell. And I mean a simple, rugged estate, with an engine, a gearbox, electric windows, heated seats - and precious little else in the way of frills. When I think back to the petrol redblock Volvos that I've owned they all returned well into the mid-thirties mpg-wise.

Put it like this, I can't really see a 2012 V70 being around in 2055, but just yesterday a lovely blue 240 saloon wafted past me near Leeds - it's 1979/80 V-registration plate shining. The driver looked as though he was really enjoying the ride. I'll bet he was - and I'm just a little envious.

Jack

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by capt jack

I'm very sad to say it, but my latest Volvo - a 2012 model V70 D5 Geartronic isn't a patch on Volvos of old.

It's one redeeming feature is the impressive 46mpg that it unfailingly returns, oh and the electric tailgate is a hoot, but these things don't make me want to go out and buy another Volvo.

Why? Well, it's just not as well engineered as older Volvos, the engine is more than a little vocal, the estate load bay is nowhere nears big as it should be, many of the plastics are decidedly flimsy, the ride is jittery, there are way too many buttons on the dashboard, and the parking brake is a pain.

The computerised wizardry is impressive, but I dread the day anything goes wrong. I could well see the car written off as uneconomical to repair should one of its many computer functions fail.

I do wonder if a manufacturer was brave enough to launch a modern equivalent of the 240 estate just how well it would sell. And I mean a simple, rugged estate, with an engine, a gearbox, electric windows, heated seats - and precious little else in the way of frills. When I think back to the petrol redblock Volvos that I've owned they all returned well into the mid-thirties mpg-wise.

Put it like this, I can't really see a 2012 V70 being around in 2055, but just yesterday a lovely blue 240 saloon wafted past me near Leeds - it's 1979/80 V-registration plate shining. The driver looked as though he was really enjoying the ride. I'll bet he was - and I'm just a little envious.

Jack

It sounds as though you're expecting your P3 Volvo to go wrong rather than it having done so.

In terms of build quality, and having recently driven a tatty 52-reg V70 D5 auto with 248k miles on the clock as a courtesy car, I can say that it was a relief to get back into my own 2014 V70.

Although that old V70 was still going, it was creeky and rattly and everything was either falling apart or had done so already. The central armrest, drinks and cubby hole area creaked and rattled away, and half the dashboard display was dead, meaning that there was therefore a warning light but no accompanying message etc. etc.

Now, much of this was probably down to neglect, but the P2 does seem to be renowned for developing rattles and creaks in its old age.

As for my P3 V70, it's still tight and solid, and the VEA diesel is still as smooth and quiet as ever after 160k miles. It's starting to use a little oil now, but this is probably the blocked oil control ring issue rather than engine wear.

All the loudspeakers work, as do all of the electronics.

Also, the tailgate gets properly out of the way when opened, and the load platform is at a very useful height. Indeed, the whole P3 V70 is at a better ride height for an estate car.

Having driven a 2008 P3 D5 and a 2014 P3 D4, I'd also have to say that the later car is much quieter and, IMHO, better built. I suspect that leaving Ford probably helped, as did switching to the newer 4-cylinder VEA diesel with balance shafts.

In terms of too many buttons, well, in part that's just modern cars for you, but I'd rather have buttons than an attention-demanding and distracting touch screen. On closer examination, all most of those buttons actually do is to bring together in one well-organised place the switches and buttons that used to be spread randomly right across the facia, across the stereo head unit, and on the satnav that would be stuck on the windscreen in older cars. We also have to remember that on later P3 cars we get voice control, enabling many features to be used without having to take a hand off the steering wheel.

Having said all of that, I do agree, however, that a very basic, no-frills car would probably find a market.

After all, who, for instance, needs indicator lights that turn on in a lateral sequence rather than simply flashing. To my eyes, the modern "sequenced" LED indicator lights are nowhere near as effective as simple flashers. I don't think that we need to see the sequence on the LH indicator building leftward in order to work out that the driver is indicating left, but we do need to wait for the sequence to complete in order to receive sufficiently intense light to enable us to know that the indicator has been used. This is because the individual lights aren't as bright, so the full sequence has to be seen in order to get the message. But that takes time, which drivers can't really afford, just as poorly designed touch screens demand time and attention that the driver can't really afford.

Also, given that we all once managed without heated front and rear windows, electric windows, air conditioning, parking sensors, satnav, heated seats, electric seats, memory seats, USB, Bluetooth, CD, cassette, built-in radio, electronic parking brakes, automatic lights, lane departure warning, blindspot information system, bendy headlights, stop-start, internet, power steering, powered tailgates, four-way flashers, reversing lights etc. etc., there's a lot that we don't need.

But we would need to keep most of the engine management stuff because contact breakers and carburettors were always a pain. Also, it might not be so good to have no heater or ventilation fan.

So the question then becomes, "What would a no-frills car actually look like in terms of features and functions?", which probably deserves a thread of its own.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showt...13#post2911813

[foggyjames]

I'd echo the above (although the improved refinement is also present on the 2010-on 5-pot diesels, with the newer injection system) - there is a real danger of descending into nostalgic nonsense here.

I own a fair selection of older Volvos, as you'll see from my signature (and have also had P80s and P2s)...but the P3, overall, must be the "best" car I've ever owned. There are some superficial quality issues - if I were keeping one for a couple of decades, I would want to properly paint and/or galvanise various parts of the bolt-on underside components (front subframe, brackets, etc), but overall the build quality is perfectly good.

But my P3 has now done over 300k miles, and genuinely feels as fresh (by which I mean rattle-free, etc) as something with ~50k on it. You simply wouldn't believe the mileage if you sat in it. It's had a load of new suspension bits, of course, but it's how well the interior has stood up which is remarkable. Anything older (100-P2) would be a creaking mess by this point. Refinement is easily on a par with a petrol P80 (and maybe even a petrol P2). The ride is a little bit jittery, but equally something significantly softer wouldn't know which way it had gone on a twisty B-road, despite weighing 1.8 tons.

I've always held a late 960 (with IRS) as the gold standard for refinement in Volvo-land, but a long journey in one a couple of years ago told me that a later P3, even a diesel one, is every bit as good...and will do double the MPG, and has a far, far better stereo.

Don't get me wrong, I love the older cars (evidently), but I did 5 hours in my P3 to Scotland today, and I don't think I'd be jumping over myself to do that week-in, week-out in the 740.

cheers

James

[GrahamHR]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I'd echo the above (although the improved refinement is also present on the 2010-on 5-pot diesels, with the newer injection system) - there is a real danger of descending into nostalgic nonsense here.

I own a fair selection of older Volvos, as you'll see from my signature (and have also had P80s and P2s)...but the P3, overall, must be the "best" car I've ever owned. There are some superficial quality issues - if I were keeping one for a couple of decades, I would want to properly paint and/or galvanise various parts of the bolt-on underside components (front subframe, brackets, etc), but overall the build quality is perfectly good.

But my P3 has now done over 300k miles, and genuinely feels as fresh (by which I mean rattle-free, etc) as something with ~50k on it. You simply wouldn't believe the mileage if you sat in it. It's had a load of new suspension bits, of course, but it's how well the interior has stood up which is remarkable. Anything older (100-P2) would be a creaking mess by this point. Refinement is easily on a par with a petrol P80 (and maybe even a petrol P2). The ride is a little bit jittery, but equally something significantly softer wouldn't know which way it had gone on a twisty B-road, despite weighing 1.8 tons.

I've always held a late 960 (with IRS) as the gold standard for refinement in Volvo-land, but a long journey in one a couple of years ago told me that a later P3, even a diesel one, is every bit as good...and will do double the MPG, and has a far, far better stereo.

Don't get me wrong, I love the older cars (evidently), but I did 5 hours in my P3 to Scotland today, and I don't think I'd be jumping over myself to do that week-in, week-out in the 740.

cheers

James

The protective coatings on subframes, crossmembers etc on P3 are indeed dire; unprotected welded areas etc. Loads of rust, whereas on earlier Volvos they'd have been galvanized or zinc plated.

[foggyjames]

True, it's grim...but absolutely typical industry-wide now, and still better than quite a lot of contemporaries. A friend in the trade said recently that they're worse than P2s, but still better than an equivalent Audi, BMW or Merc. And it's relatively easily rectified - even the visibly brown areas on my 2013 car are still only on the surface, so would clean up with a blasting and re-coating. Some Mercs of the same era (not to mention "lesser" brands) are plagued by actual structural rot on subframes, and there are fairly chronic issues with some JLR wishbones, I was hearing recently.

But yes, it's a retrograde step compared with a P80 or P2 with their plated finishes, and even an older model where those parts are 'just' painted had paint which was actually fit for purpose. If I were keeping my car long-long term, I'd buy new replacements, and take them for immediate re-coating with something more sturdy - either powder coating or galvanising.

But let's also not forget that an awful lot of 240s were getting really quite rusty by the time they were 10 years old. 7/900s were a high point, but the floors like to rot on them, and the interiors weren't brilliantly built.

Having said that, it is impressive that I think only one or two original fasteners on the whole of my 164 (which has been completely apart) broke...and the car was fairly rusty in places. The fasteners were made of something special!

cheers

James

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by capt jack

I'm very sad to say it, but my latest Volvo - a 2012 model V70 D5 Geartronic isn't a patch on Volvos of old.

It's one redeeming feature is the impressive 46mpg that it unfailingly returns, oh and the electric tailgate is a hoot, but these things don't make me want to go out and buy another Volvo.

Why? Well, it's just not as well engineered as older Volvos, the engine is more than a little vocal, the estate load bay is nowhere nears big as it should be, many of the plastics are decidedly flimsy, the ride is jittery, there are way too many buttons on the dashboard, and the parking brake is a pain.

The computerised wizardry is impressive, but I dread the day anything goes wrong. I could well see the car written off as uneconomical to repair should one of its many computer functions fail.

I do wonder if a manufacturer was brave enough to launch a modern equivalent of the 240 estate just how well it would sell. And I mean a simple, rugged estate, with an engine, a gearbox, electric windows, heated seats - and precious little else in the way of frills. When I think back to the petrol redblock Volvos that I've owned they all returned well into the mid-thirties mpg-wise.

Put it like this, I can't really see a 2012 V70 being around in 2055, but just yesterday a lovely blue 240 saloon wafted past me near Leeds - it's 1979/80 V-registration plate shining. The driver looked as though he was really enjoying the ride. I'll bet he was - and I'm just a little envious.

Jack

If we're comparing P3's to P2's, the boot in a P3 Volvo V70 is bigger on the floor at least than a P2 V70... the car itself is bigger than a P2, but the internal roof height is slightly lower in a P3. Rear leg room sucks in P2's... at least they made it a little better in P3's. If we're talking comparing a P3 to Volvo estates of old like the 740 estate, then the boots probably aren't as big. However, Volvo aren't alone in that department because other manufacturers did the exact same.

If you need more room than a V70 P3 boot and want to stay relatively modern, then really you need an MPV, a van, a Mercedes E Class estate or Skoda Superb estate because apart from those, there's not much that doesn't fit in a P3 V70 boot. For example, the newest estate on offer from Volvo (V90) has a smaller boot than the V70 it replaced, but the newer V90 is significantly bigger in terms of dimensions with more rear leg room, yet cargo space is smaller. Go figure.

Volvo's nowadays aren't built to last as the old ones did, but all the same, I don't think the newer Volvo's are bad. The more that's fitted to a car, the more there is to go wrong. However, Volvo adapted like many other manufacturers to keep up with what was on trend. Gone are the old days of a basic estate with minimal gizmo's. People, or most, now expect all the modern gizmo's for the price they pay for a vehicle. "Frills" are what sell cars and we live in a "throw away" society where the vast majority don't keep cars for years and years on end anyway.

If Volvo did release a basic estate, it may sell, but it would have to be significantly cheaper to sway people away from the likes of Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Jaguar with all their tech.

[foggyjames]

I forgot to say that I bet I know who owns the gleaming blue V-reg 240 capt jack saw in Leeds!

cheers

James

[pont]

Each volvo I have owned has made me want to keep it .

I was really concerned when replacing my last V70 that an xc60 would be a lesser car. I need not have worried as it is the best I have ever owned.

Now I am thinking of changing and downsizing to an xc40, the same thing is happening, in my head it will be a mistake, the new double clutch gearbox (groan) will let me down, it will cost far too much, and if I want the goodies I now have, especially adaptive cruise, I have to buy the very expensive ultimate version.

Why would I part with my xc60? The big issue for me is the huge cost to change. Pre 2020 it was always financially manageable, I would treat myself
to a newer model, but now its a real stretch even though I am better off.

So would I buy another volvo? Absolutely, if I could afford the huge prices.
Will I though? A lexus with 8 or nine years warranty for similar money looks a better bet.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by pont

Each volvo I have owned has made me want to keep it .

I was really concerned when replacing my last V70 that an xc60 would be a lesser car. I need not have worried as it is the best I have ever owned.

Now I am thinking of changing and downsizing to an xc40, the same thing is happening, in my head it will be a mistake, the new double clutch gearbox (groan) will let me down, it will cost far too much, and if I want the goodies I now have, especially adaptive cruise, I have to buy the very expensive ultimate version.

Why would I part with my xc60? The big issue for me is the huge cost to change. Pre 2020 it was always financially manageable, I would treat myself
to a newer model, but now its a real stretch even though I am better off.

So would I buy another volvo? Absolutely, if I could afford the huge prices.
Will I though? A lexus with 8 or nine years warranty for similar money looks a better bet.

What’s the rear leg room like in the XC60, compared to the V70?