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Electric Cars

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Old Jun 23rd, 2019, 22:36   #1
The Thong
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Did anyone watch Topgear tonight? The usual amount of buffooning about but with home spun Electric cars with the exception of the Leaf. A good point was made about the deterioration of the battery pack over time. At 8yo the battery range was down significantly which as they pointed out made the motor a write off. My former 2002 gassed S60 is now 17yo and is still going strong which begs the question, are electric cars as Green as they say? If I was going to buy one, I’d opt for the Tesla that has got a more respectable range compared to its competitors. I have to say though, I was quite taken with the electric Spitfire, I’d happily have one of those even if the range was naff.

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Old Jun 23rd, 2019, 23:13   #2
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Originally Posted by The Thong View Post
Did anyone watch Topgear tonight? The usual amount of buffooning about but with home spun Electric cars with the exception of the Leaf. A good point was made about the deterioration of the battery pack over time. At 8yo the battery range was down significantly which as they pointed out made the motor a write off. My former 2002 gassed S60 is now 17yo and is still going strong which begs the question, are electric cars as Green as they say? If I was going to buy one, I’d opt for the Tesla that has got a more respectable range compared to its competitors. I have to say though, I was quite taken with the electric Spitfire, I’d happily have one of those even if the range was naff.

TT
Shusss,, your not supposed to ask that question, your supposed to swallow the media presented "facts" and not question anything.

the "carbon footprint" for the batteries, making them and then transporting them around the globe, far far outweighs the "green" nature of them Before you even get to the Charging of them, or the life span.
Sister had a renault Zoe, on a 3 year lease, that needed 2 battery packs , she foolishly extended it for another 3years, and guess what,it needed Another battery pack, Then went fubar to the point she rejected the car as unfit for purpose,, in the 4th year.

they are Not "greener"
they have a Bigger "carbon footprint"

we are Not supposed to dare to question things like that, just buy them and bend over for the BOHICA hike in electricity charges AND taxes


When "most" have swapped to electric and HMG are Not getting the ££ in petrol/diesel dutys, it doenst take a genius to work out where the short fall will be made up from,
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 13:14   #3
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Few years ago myself, my wife and our 30 something daughter, together with a weeks worth of luggage, travelled from Kent to Dingal (Ireland). We did it in an S80 and in one continuous drive (except for the ferry!). When I can get an electric car that can do the same, I might consider one. Until then...no thanks!
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 13:16   #4
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The oft-reported additional carbon footprint of an electric car compared to an ICE vehicle is about 3 tonnes CO2.

In the UK, that is saved in about 20000 miles of driving (typical 130g/km for an ICE vehicle in the real world, 30g/km for an EV - 100g/km saving, 32000km = 20000 miles = 3.2 tonnes CO2). After that the EV has a lower lifetime footprint. At the end of life, after re-use, batteries are recycled with typically 97% recovery of raw materials - how do you recycle fossil fuel fumes?

To say nothing of the savings on engine oil, filters, cambelts, etc.

This break-even period is ever reducing as the grid gets rapidly cleaner (grid was 474g/kWh in 2013 in the UK. 2018 was 216g/kWh, and 2019 to date is 200g/kWh). In other words, a 5 year old EV is now emitting less than half what it did per km than when it was new - no ICE vehicle can do that.

Also note that it takes a lot of energy to refine petrol from crude oil - about 11% overhead (ie for every 9 gallons that you get out the end, you burned one in the process).

You feel that you're being force-fed EVs and not meant to question the "facts" as you put them? The media far more strongly represents the vested interests of the Oil and Gas industrys to which you will happily continue hitting the feeder bar and sending your money to fund questionable regimes - you've swallowed their Anti-EV bias, not the other way around.

Yes, you're correct that there will be a shortfall in revenue, and that will be made up for with road pricing. And you know what, Petrol and Diesel cars will have to pay that too, ON TOP of duty, VAT, etc. It's ICE drivers that are going to be bending over (well, already do).
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 13:22   #5
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Few years ago myself, my wife and our 30 something daughter, together with a weeks worth of luggage, travelled from Kent to Dingal (Ireland). We did it in an S80 and in one continuous drive (except for the ferry!). When I can get an electric car that can do the same, I might consider one. Until then...no thanks!
Tesla model 3LR or 3P

Drive from kent to Pembroke dock.

Charge on board.

15 minute stop at Ionity in Cashel.

15 minute stop not worth saving £75 of fuel for?
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 14:22   #6
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... and sending your money to fund questionable regimes - you've swallowed their Anti-EV bias, not the other way around...
I thought that you were creating a good factual argument for EV until you came out with that line and showed that you have also swallowed a bias but in the opposite direction, and tried to tug on heart strings to try to prove a point.
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 16:54   #7
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Tesla model 3LR or 3P

Drive from kent to Pembroke dock.

Charge on board.

15 minute stop at Ionity in Cashel.

15 minute stop not worth saving £75 of fuel for?
But at what cost? Sell me a Tesla for less than 10 thousand pounds and I'm in!
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Old Jun 24th, 2019, 20:43   #8
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Infrastructure is the issue, I live on a terraced street so nowhere to plug in. Even with ICE cars, the manufacture methods the manufacturers is in itself wasteful and polluting. The Ford plan in Pamplona had all the bumpers manufactured in Stafford, loaded in Sprinter vans and transported on demand as and when... Why? Why couldn’t they be manufactured in Pamplona? Parts shipped in from here there and everywhere... I know it’s about job creation and politics but it sets itself against the Green ethos of modern cars. Yes, our cars are green but the van driving 900 miles to bring the bumpers are not... Its lunacy

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Old Jun 27th, 2019, 09:24   #9
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I really don't understand what the either/or thing is about. To me, it makes perfect sense to use a combustion engine on long haul journeys. Electric simply isn't as good at that. It's very good at starting and stopping though. It'd be great in towns where mostly i'm pootling a hundred yards from red light to red light.

So I'd like a smaller battery. It's not about range! 10 miles is enough. Enough to help with the town driving, but no intention of trying to motorway for a hundred miles, for which the combustion engine can maintain my constant 65mph - a job which it does best, and spreading only a thin layer of polution over a very large area instead of concentrated between the bank and the town hall on a wednesday morning.

How do you heat the cabin though?
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Old Jun 27th, 2019, 09:50   #10
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Converting old classics to full electric is the best idea I've heard, what an excellent use of a limited driving range! just perfect.

'Chris Fix' on youtube did a video about changing the battery pack on a Prius (a traditionally very expensive job) but now there are aftermarket battery packs that are perfectly DIY-able for a fraction of the cost, he made the case for buying a knackered old Prius quite attractive. My point being there always seems to be an independent fix available after a few years, this could well apply to full-electric cars in the future.
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