Study on emissions of electric cars

[warwick]

Originally Posted by airforced

The easiest and most ECO friendly solution would be to ban everything. Then someone would be happy surely!

And an age old saying worth considering whenever you are next reading a report/study is, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. If I've got that wrong please don't bother to correct me.

Banning everything and returning to the horse and cart is exactly what some eco warriors would like!

[m2srt]

With any type of study it's always worth looking at who is funding it! My 2 cents worth is that if people kept cars longer then it would be far more beneficial to the environment. Checking with the DVLA, I can see that at least 6 of my former cars are still on the road
. I decided that I will try to keep my current car until it dies or becomes uneconomical to repair. Maybe that sounds crazy but I truly believe that is the most 'eco' way that I can own a car.

[MaDProFF]

Originally Posted by Haldex

Fact: 42% of all CO2 emissions come from electricity generation. Imagine what would (will?..) happen if (when?..) the electricity demand/production doubled, quadrupled?..

Fact: in Germany, for eg, 40% of electricity is still generated by burning coal. Imagine doubling, or quadrupling the demand.

Fact: Making of Tesla Model S batteries produces as much CO2 as an ICE car in 8.2 years of use, on average. And they have a usable lifespan of 4-5 yrs, at best.

That is a complete load of twaddle, there are many Teslas much older than that with 200k on the clock on the original batteries, and still holding 90% capacity.
When they get to 70% they end up in wall power packs.

Some scholarly articles on this topic:

https://autoweek.com/article/green-c...-pollution-evs

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....amp/17435.html

Now to be clear- I’m by no means pro-ICE, as much as I’m against-EV. EV hype is costing us time and resources that could be used to develop a more viable, cleaner and sustainable solution.

People are so short sighted, in 10 years time many might be self sufficient in producing enough electricity for themselves and put back into the grid.

[xco]

Originally Posted by warwick

Banning everything and returning to the horse and cart is exactly what some eco warriors would like!

Its been estimated that if horses were to return as transport to replace one on one per vehicle, the roads at any given time would be three feet high in dung, the shovelers been unable to clear it quick enough let alone where to..... and think of the methane emissions then, so no ,back to nature is not even the answer.

[xco]

If we stopped trying to kill each other and concentrated resources in improving the planet instead we might learn how to harness nature in a better way.

There is estimated to be up to 18 million lightning discharges going on in the world at any one time ( i dont mean in one place i'm talking about storms worldwide).
If we could learn how to take advantage and the harnessing of that ,say storing in battery farms on the ground and controlled release say to electrified grid systems under roads and cars running by induction on it then there wouldn't be an energy problem ever again as this is already a regular daily occurance and is free.

Also I think Weather Shepherding could be investigated by using the same power to change the weather to drive rain clouds to drought ridden areas etc....but that's fuel for a different thread.

What sounds like science fiction could so easily become science fact with a little intuitive thinking and obviously the cash to develop it.

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

That is a complete load of twaddle, there are many Teslas much older than that with 200k on the clock on the original batteries, and still holding 90% capacity.

Ofcourse. There are many Nokias 3310 out there still running strong.. but that's not the point.. The point is literally ALL EVs' battery packs will be at the end of their useful life before they ever reach a CO2 breakeven point with their ICE equivalents.

Here's some more reading for you: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...ronment-impact

Heard of child-labor camps for lithium extraction?

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

People are so short sighted, in 10 years time many might be self sufficient in producing enough electricity for themselves and put back into the grid.

Sure. Might. Just as, in /put a number here/ years, many will be able to juice up on home-made hydrogen and drive all day pollution free.

[m2srt]

Originally Posted by Haldex

Ofcourse. There are many Nokias 3310 out there still running strong.. but that's not the point.. The point is literally ALL EVs' battery packs will be at the end of their useful life before they ever reach a CO2 breakeven point with their ICE equivalents.

Here's some more reading for you: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...ronment-impact

Heard of child-labor camps for lithium extraction?



Sure. Might. Just as, in /put a number here/ years, many will be able to juice up on home-made hydrogen and drive all day pollution free.

I think that with our current technology it is very much a case of we're dammed if we do and we're dammed if you don't! Hydrogen may make a strong case for itself but even that has less than ideal environmental credentials. So I reiterate my previous post, running my current car for as long as possible is probably the 'greenest 'option for me.

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by m2srt

I think that with our current technology it is very much a case of we're dammed if we do and we're dammed if you don't!

Sadly- it seems like that..

[SignumGB]

Originally Posted by AndyJudge

Exactly it all depends on the spin put on the statistics.

One can dress the electric vehcile thing anyway they want depending on agenda. I am not a fan of electric vehicles at the moment. Not enough range and not enough charge points. If I go up to the highlands, there are bugger all to be found apart from the odd one or you are chapping someones door who has one. Even when I stop at service stations, the amount of vehicles and the first thing I think, where are all these charge points going to go? I work in the energy industry and I can say for a fact our infrastructure is not geared up. Our plant and cables will just 'cook' moving away from a cyclic load pattern.

[antman99]

I have a 2016 xc60 and have recently changed our second car for a BMW i3, facts are yes it can only go 120 miles on a charge, yes there are not enough reliable public chargers, yes they are more expensive to buy.

However,

I still have my XC60 for longer trips, it costs about 3p per a mile for us rather than the 15p for the Volvo diesel, it costs less to service the BMW over the Volvo, it is possible to public charge if the requirement is there on an odd occasion. That of course ignores the free electric I currently get, yes it will change but my local council has free charger when it town, Cabot circus has free public chargers when paying for parking, finally it really does impress.

In relation to co2 emissions, yes there is obviously co2 impact for the creation of an electric car, but there is also an impact on conventional ICE cars, does a motor and battery require more co2, yes of course and the mining of raw materials is not at the right place yet (was oil production not the same years ago) but when you look at the whole life and the fact batteries and motors generally last longer on their first iteration than ICE does it balance? I don’t know the answer but I do know the world is changing and people who continue to slander electric cars need to go and learn about them, they are not only cheaper but more fun and if used correctly can be better for the environment.

Regarding the grid, I know a lot less than Signum about it so won’t pretend but I after looking at what I consider facts on environmental impact I am going to get solar installed and possibly a small battery until V2G becomes available, with solar at the current pricing if you are not going to move for 7 years it can pay off on average and you help to increase the renewable usage.

Yes I love my Volvo XC60 but I am 28 years old and think we all have a responsibility to try and do the best we can for the greater good, no I am not an environmentalist but if we all ignore the problem nothing will change, it should be the government driving it but sitting on your hands until you are forced to does not help the situation

Of course I have to say that the i3 will likely be replaced by the Polestar 2 when it becomes available.