Odd new turbo noise

[-bobda-]

That's mighty mighty helpful, Pete. Thanks!

I had a chat with the dealer this evening. Went through the options that I had in mind and he was VERY supportive of all of them, particularly so the warranty idea...
I told them that if it was going to cost £970 (which is the quote I now have from them) for the turbo replacement. Then I wouldn't be the one paying it!

The EGR valve replacement AFTER the 50% Volvo discount is £518.

My options, as it stands are;
1. Sell it. It's gone up by a £1k in value since I bought it and it took the Volvo technicians two attempts to identify the fault, they said the noise was normal. It still drives great (albeit a bit down on power) and the dealer said that it won't do any harm to drive it with the turbo as it is.

2. Pursue the place I bought it from, if they turn me down, then I will get legal advice, since I bought it from them less than 6 months ago, the fault is legally assumed to have been present at the time of sale.

3. Get a warranty, let it run for a while and then claim. I can get a fully comprehensive warranty for £311 for a year, which would also cover the EGR valve repair if it comes to it.

Well, your options 2 & 3 mean you keep the car so maybe the first thing to decide is:
a) Sell car?
b) Or keep it and try and minimise the repair cost?

"Minimise the repair cost" could mean minimise it to £0 and would involve either the (IMO dodgy) warranty method, or to claim the money back from someone else, or even as I was getting at to use cheaper recon or used parts and a non-volvo dealer to get the costs down.

So, do you really want to sell the car? Your sig says it is 'tweaked' and I presume that was by yourself which means you'd have to do all that again to any new car. I'm interested in how come your car has gone up 1k in value as you don't normally get that back when you modify a car, but even if it has what if you bought another similar car, could you get another for this money, what if that ended up having expensive faults?

My personal feelings are that getting rid of a potentially good car because it needs a bit of work doing is never a good reason, especially if you believe that when that work is done then the car will be ok. Rightly or wrongly I still think if I can sort out the things on my S40 then it will be ok, and "my way" has always been to keep plugging away and fixing cars rather than just get them shifted. This is because:
(a) If you buy another similar car just because of the problem with your one, and it goes wrong, you'll think "oh no, if only I'd kept the old volvo I bet it wouldve't been perfect once I'd sorted that egr + turbo"
(b) If you get rid of your car, you'll basically be throwing away all the work you have done and the things you have modified.

Of course, as any decent psychiatrist will tell you, you should never look back and think "what if" but just look to the future. But human beings don't seem to be programmed to do that!

How long have you had the car? If you've not had it very long at all and haven't really done anything too much to it then it might be easier to get it shifted.

Anyway, if you do decide to keep the car then one good thing is it sounds like you can take your time over these faults. That might mean trying to fight a court case etc. to claim off the seller, or it might just mean saving up money and searching for cheap parts. By the sounds of your quote, Mr. dealer is charging you £90 per hour for labour which is fair enough from a dealer but you could get it down to £35 per hour from an independant place. Re. the EGR valve, whilst not knowing too much about diesels I cannot believe it is too much of a job I think you probably just have to remove starter motor for access and drain some coolant. For my car the haynes book says it is only "2/5 spanners" which is the "easy" rating for "inexperienced" mechanics, and one presumes the dealers are rated at "5/5"! Perhaps the part itself is very expensive but again maybe you could go used on this.

Re. the warranty, even if this works you have still paid £300 for it. That's equivalent to paying for the EGR + turbo work to be done for £300. I personally doubt that anything else will go wrong during the next 12 months which you could claim under warranty, and the warranty suppliers will doubt this too which is how they calculate the £300 insurance premium. I still think you won't get away with it on warranty, but again this is only my opinion. But what if you don't get away with it? - then you've paid your £300 for nothing. By the way, a lot of warranties do NOT cover the turbocharger.

Now, this is just my opinion and I am not you and I don't know your full situation, but what I would do is:
a) Keep the car
b) Find the cheapest parts and labour (within reason that is still acceptable) and get the work done fairly soon
c) Separately pursue a case against the seller with regard to refund for the cost of the work

The reason I would not delay the work until potentially winning the cost is because it would really bug me that these faults persisted, and I would just want to get them sorted. Also it may affect e.g fuel economy during this time and certainly the enjoyment of the car. Your case against the seller may go on for ages. Anyway, provided you keep all receipts etc. I cannot see a problem with getting the seller to pay for the work at a later date. The only thing here is that the seller may be more willing to do the work themselves rather than pay you - which they can't if the work has already been done! But then again, it sounds like you aren't exactly bestist buddies with the company you bought the car off so you may not exactly want them to come near your car and touch it with a bargepole let alone do work on it! They'd probably just goof up the work anyway.

Of course, all this relies on you keeping the car which I would do. Once you make that decision and get the work done you can get back to liking it again. But I guarantee - if you decide to sell it and you want rid merely due to the fact it has a fault, then you will loath that car and end up driving it badly until the day it finally goes. That's no fun, and unless you end up buying a mechnically-perfect car to replace it (and no-one can be sure nothing will ever go wrong with a car) then you'll probably always look back with rose tinted specs on and wish you hadn't sold it!

Let us know what you decide anyway, hope this has been of some help.

Pete

[-bobda-]

Originally Posted by peteS40

Well, your options 2 & 3 mean you keep the car so maybe the first thing to decide is:
a) Sell car?
b) Or keep it and try and minimise the repair cost?

"Minimise the repair cost" could mean minimise it to £0 and would involve either the (IMO dodgy) warranty method, or to claim the money back from someone else, or even as I was getting at to use cheaper recon or used parts and a non-volvo dealer to get the costs down.

Yep, minimising it to £0 would be perfect! On suggesting to the dealer the warranty route, I received a positive response.

So, do you really want to sell the car? Your sig says it is 'tweaked' and I presume that was by yourself which means you'd have to do all that again to any new car. I'm interested in how come your car has gone up 1k in value as you don't normally get that back when you modify a car, but even if it has what if you bought another similar car, could you get another for this money, what if that ended up having expensive faults?

It's gone up £1k in value from the day I bought it when Parkers was saying £7100 to today where Parkers is saying £8005. Odd I know, but I must just be lucky in that respect!

I've had it custom remapped, put in a BMC panel filter and added some smoked side markers to match the indicators and side repeaters, nothing major, but the remap made a big difference.
This isn't what has put it up by value, but I would think the remap would make it slightly more desirable to a buyer over a similar model.

My personal feelings are that getting rid of a potentially good car because it needs a bit of work doing is never a good reason, especially if you believe that when that work is done then the car will be ok. Rightly or wrongly I still think if I can sort out the things on my S40 then it will be ok, and "my way" has always been to keep plugging away and fixing cars rather than just get them shifted. This is because:
(a) If you buy another similar car just because of the problem with your one, and it goes wrong, you'll think "oh no, if only I'd kept the old volvo I bet it wouldve't been perfect once I'd sorted that egr + turbo"
(b) If you get rid of your car, you'll basically be throwing away all the work you have done and the things you have modified.

Of course, as any decent psychiatrist will tell you, you should never look back and think "what if" but just look to the future. But human beings don't seem to be programmed to do that!

I know and I'm not one to chuck out cars on a whim! I've only had this car and a little Alfa (which was my first car) and this is the first major non-fault issue I've had with any car, including ones which have been in the family.

Maybe that's what is erring me towards selling, coupled with the increased value.

How long have you had the car? If you've not had it very long at all and haven't really done anything too much to it then it might be easier to get it shifted.

I got it in January, which is why I believe I am entitled to some recompense from the trader who I bought it off.

There was evidence of something amiss at purchase (dirty oil, even though it was only changed 6000 miles previous).

Anyway, if you do decide to keep the car then one good thing is it sounds like you can take your time over these faults. That might mean trying to fight a court case etc. to claim off the seller, or it might just mean saving up money and searching for cheap parts. By the sounds of your quote, Mr. dealer is charging you £90 per hour for labour which is fair enough from a dealer but you could get it down to £35 per hour from an independant place. Re. the EGR valve, whilst not knowing too much about diesels I cannot believe it is too much of a job I think you probably just have to remove starter motor for access and drain some coolant. For my car the haynes book says it is only "2/5 spanners" which is the "easy" rating for "inexperienced" mechanics, and one presumes the dealers are rated at "5/5"! Perhaps the part itself is very expensive but again maybe you could go used on this.

The cost for the EGR valve to be replaced by Volvo and for them to cover 50% of the cost is a £570 job. This is because it includes a number of parts, some kind of fuel valve as well and a number of software upgrades. If I don't go this route, then I won't get the 50%.

This is where the warranty would come in again...

Re. the warranty, even if this works you have still paid £300 for it. That's equivalent to paying for the EGR + turbo work to be done for £300. I personally doubt that anything else will go wrong during the next 12 months which you could claim under warranty, and the warranty suppliers will doubt this too which is how they calculate the £300 insurance premium. I still think you won't get away with it on warranty, but again this is only my opinion. But what if you don't get away with it? - then you've paid your £300 for nothing. By the way, a lot of warranties do NOT cover the turbocharger.

I very much doubt I could get the EGR valve and turbo done for £300. If I could, I'd be on it like a shot.

I've specified the turbo on the warranty I have quoted for and it's covered.

Now, this is just my opinion and I am not you and I don't know your full situation, but what I would do is:
a) Keep the car
b) Find the cheapest parts and labour (within reason that is still acceptable) and get the work done fairly soon
c) Separately pursue a case against the seller with regard to refund for the cost of the work

The reason I would not delay the work until potentially winning the cost is because it would really bug me that these faults persisted, and I would just want to get them sorted. Also it may affect e.g fuel economy during this time and certainly the enjoyment of the car. Your case against the seller may go on for ages. Anyway, provided you keep all receipts etc. I cannot see a problem with getting the seller to pay for the work at a later date. The only thing here is that the seller may be more willing to do the work themselves rather than pay you - which they can't if the work has already been done! But then again, it sounds like you aren't exactly bestist buddies with the company you bought the car off so you may not exactly want them to come near your car and touch it with a bargepole let alone do work on it! They'd probably just goof up the work anyway.

I imagine that they would want to see it first and perhaps appoint their own inspector to verify the fault. That's if they DO agree some kind of recompense at all.

Of course, all this relies on you keeping the car which I would do. Once you make that decision and get the work done you can get back to liking it again. But I guarantee - if you decide to sell it and you want rid merely due to the fact it has a fault, then you will loath that car and end up driving it badly until the day it finally goes. That's no fun, and unless you end up buying a mechnically-perfect car to replace it (and no-one can be sure nothing will ever go wrong with a car) then you'll probably always look back with rose tinted specs on and wish you hadn't sold it!

Let us know what you decide anyway, hope this has been of some help.

Pete

Many thanks for the words of advice, Pete.

Food for thought indeed.

[-bobda-]

Well...day by day this unrolls a little further.

I received some good advice from a few friends and people in the know and rang my local trading standards for guidance.

They believe I have a case against the trader and with that in mind I spoke with them today.
Immediately they offered to pay 50% of the repair cost, which I politely refused stating the Sale of Goods act and the advice I had received from Trading Standards which was that I should not find myself out of pocket in the matter.

They gave me the name of their aftersales manager and recommended I write to him enclosing all quotes for work from Volvo and they would look at my claim.
This was consistent with the advice I received from Trading Standards.

I will keep you updated on the progress as and when (not if) it develops further.

Andy

Good developments... and interesting stuff.

Did you buy the car from a major 2nd hand dealership or car supermarket etc.? They sound an awful lot more helpful and willing to pay than I would have expected... maybe car dealers aren't really all called arthur daley after all....

[jeremymarksuk]

Is there an update to this thread as my V40 is now making a hissing noise again, the mechamaniac cannot find any air leaks on the hoses (they were replaced last year) and it is not the MAF unit (replaced last year aswell).

It is not down on power but there is a hissing noise which is very loud as it comes on boost.

Could it be the EGR valve? I also have oil in the same place and the bolts have been tightened up.

Any words of advice most welcome.

Jeremy

[-bobda-]

I was actually just about to reply to this thread with an update...

I got the car back yesterday after 2 1/2 weeks away with the company I bought it from, getting the turbo replaced under warranty as that was what Volvo diagnosed as the likely cause of the noise.

It's STILL making a noise on boost, so I'm now thinking that it could well be the EGR valve, since the Volvo dealer I went to also said that there was a fault code logged for the EGR valve.

I'm going to check out the air filter for gaps/leaks and replace my panel filter with a standard Volvo/OEM one to see if it makes any difference to the noise.

I've now got an aftermarket warranty on the car, so if it IS the EGR valve, hopefully they will cover the cost of that work which Volvo said would be just over £500 which includes their 50% goodwill payment towards it.

The technician did say though, that if the EGR valve was faulty, then it could be identified by a lurching sensation.

I've read around a few forumd and Renault (whose engine it is) have issued a cleaning tool to their technicians to de-coke the EGR valve if they're not too bad so I think I'll go to my local Renault specialist/dealer and see if they can help out first off.

I've been following this thread with great interest as my 03 1.9D V40 has been making this kind of noise since December.

August last year one of the turbo hoses split and i ended up driving over 50 miles home with a bad leak on the system (black smoke, no power etc) The hose was then replaced and everything was fine. I asked the dealer if i could have damaged the turbo and they said no. Everthing was fine until December when i got the extra whistling noise on accelaration. It was definately a "new" noise.

I then went back to the dealer as i thought i had another air-leak in the turbo pipes. They ran a load of tests on it and couldn't find anything. They even said that noise was normal . Since then the cars been running ok but i still get the noise - if you floor the accelerator then lift off 2-3 seconds later you can really hear it suck then stop. I don't think i;ve lost any power though and it idles without a murmor.

So i guess my next port of call is the dealer again to check the EGR valve. Let us know how you get on with yours and good luck.

[-bobda-]

Isn't it funny, every time a new person posts on here, I have some news to post about my problem...

Last night, as I was on the M62 on my way home at 23.30, my turbo blew.
It was changed (as you can see) the week previous but the noise was still present.

I don't know if you've ever seen a turbo blow at motorway speeds, in the dark, but the amount of white smoke that came out of the car was unbelievable. I managed to stop and when I looked back, couldn't see either carriageway of the motorway further than 200 yards away.

The RAC flatbedded it home for me and I need to open up a can of whoopass on the garage who changed the turbo last week.

My suspicion is that the EGR valve has stuck shut, the combustion temperatures got too high and blew the turbo with dramatic consequences.

I will be investigating my options further today...

[jeremymarksuk]

Well I hope you get the turbo sorted out sounds serious and expensive, the noise I have is apparently a pinhole in one of the hoses. Bloody loud noise so I do not know how big the dealers pins are? Anyway they are fixing it today so I can get it tomorrow and hopefully all will be well.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the customer service and actions of the dealer, Yeovil Motor Company, unhelphul, unfriendly and they kept my wife waiting for an hour and half while they diagnosed it only to tell her it was too hot for them to be able touch. I will not be using them again.

Any way good luck with the Turbo.

Jeremy

PS. Of course the hose is not covered under the warranty.