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Volvo Cars & Motability

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Old Jul 6th, 2015, 23:34   #1
Mike 700
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Thumbs up Volvo Cars & Motability

As most disabled people will already know, Motability is a Charity, set up by Government to help the more severely disabled be mobile, by arranging contract hire for cars ( usually over 3 years ) including adaptions, & also Mobility Scooters.

It is supported by the banks & most car manufacturers with a variety of models available from small to large, from saloons to estate cars to people carriers to SUV's, with deposits ( advanced payments ) ranging from 0 to 2999 normally.

There are also specially adapted vehicles available for those who need them.

Full information is available on the Motability web site.

Volvo are doing the disabled proud at present by offering a variety of V40's, V60's, V70's & now some very nice XC60's , some cars come with petrol engines but most come with diesel engines and also manual & automatic options, and metallic paint is offered free of charge.

Having the use of a reliable motor vehicle is a lifeline to many disabled people & their carers/ families, so 'well done Volvo' & thank you.
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Old Jul 8th, 2015, 00:18   #2
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Quote:
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As most disabled people will already know, Motability is a Charity, set up by Government
Set up by Government and pretty much in the main funded by the DWP, from Tax, from the Government.

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Having the use of a reliable motor vehicle is a lifeline to many disabled people & their carers/ families, so 'well done Volvo' & thank you.
This will probably offend, so I'll just say it like I see it. Luxury cars - XC60 SE Lux for example, shouldn't even be appearing on the list IMHO.

Why? The DWP funded 18M last year to the charitable income tune of 3M. I'm rounding up.

It cost an additional 9M to adminster this process, of which 1M was stumped up by the DWP. The rest came from manufacturers I presume, the annual reports are a bit wooly on this point.

Now I am not wholly against the concept of Motability, far from it.

I am however, against the extravagance of the system.

Why?

My next door neighbour is currently totling about in a brand new Tiguan. And yes, I do know how DLA works... he's managed to get the higher rate DLA assessment because he has nightmares. All well and good, the walking stick he uses sees day light Monday to Friday 8-5... beyond that... staggering home from the pub late on, he appears to be miraculously cured... and he's not the only one!

I once got moaned at for being unsympathetic on this forum because someone on Motability needed a certain type of car to tow their new caravan and it was no longer available. If you can afford a new caravan, why is the State funding a car?

Now I appreciate that my view point may be skewed slightly due to these "experiences"... however, they are not isolated and the fact remains. Mobility is an abused system with decadence to boot. If a Tiguan was so necessary, why isn't a Ford Ka? (designed from the outset for folks with impaired mobility by Ford) If the higher seat is required, what's wrong with a Peugeot Bipper?

The facts herein are in the Motability annual reports... here
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Old Jul 8th, 2015, 09:33   #3
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Fair comment yes the system is abused, but all systems are!

Big companies don't pay living wages so we the tax payer support with tax credits, yet these same companies make huge profits but don't pay taxes fairly, but no one seems to bother about that, when leaked documents appear about cuts to the sick, disabled and jobless, not much is said in the press but cut tax credits and wow explosions!

You say about small cars but have you looked at the size and weight of electric wheelchairs/powerchairs needed? A small car couldn't carry that weight some weigh as much as 154 kg! And then there could be oxygen cylinders too!

My wife is disabled, through an accident, worked over 35 years and needs support and a large car to carry what she needs.

By the way we bought our car.
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Old Jul 8th, 2015, 10:05   #4
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Set up by Government and pretty much in the main funded by the DWP, from Tax, from the Government.



This will probably offend, so I'll just say it like I see it. Luxury cars - XC60 SE Lux for example, shouldn't even be appearing on the list IMHO.

Why? The DWP funded 18M last year to the charitable income tune of 3M. I'm rounding up.

It cost an additional 9M to adminster this process, of which 1M was stumped up by the DWP. The rest came from manufacturers I presume, the annual reports are a bit wooly on this point.

Now I am not wholly against the concept of Motability, far from it.

I am however, against the extravagance of the system.

Why?

My next door neighbour is currently totling about in a brand new Tiguan. And yes, I do know how DLA works... he's managed to get the higher rate DLA assessment because he has nightmares. All well and good, the walking stick he uses sees day light Monday to Friday 8-5... beyond that... staggering home from the pub late on, he appears to be miraculously cured... and he's not the only one!

I once got moaned at for being unsympathetic on this forum because someone on Motability needed a certain type of car to tow their new caravan and it was no longer available. If you can afford a new caravan, why is the State funding a car?

Now I appreciate that my view point may be skewed slightly due to these "experiences"... however, they are not isolated and the fact remains. Mobility is an abused system with decadence to boot. If a Tiguan was so necessary, why isn't a Ford Ka? (designed from the outset for folks with impaired mobility by Ford) If the higher seat is required, what's wrong with a Peugeot Bipper?

The facts herein are in the Motability annual reports... here

Some people do abuse this, as well as other , schemes i have no doubt, and knowing one or two perhaps does skew our view of the scheme, but these 'abusers' are a tiny minority, and they along with people who base their opinion on the whole scheme just on their personal knowledge of this minority, put Motability and therefore the needs of genuinely disabled at risk.

So let's knock some of this nonsense on the head right now:

1/ Volvo Cars UK. Is not a charity, any more than Ford or Nissan or any of the others, it is a business, and it has taken a business decision to include some of it's 'better' cars in the Motability scheme, cars which it needs to sell anyway, some of which are attracting massive discounts in the showrooms.

2/ Vehicles offered on the scheme are already available to non disabled people on lease- contract hire terms not much different from Motability ( as an example Volvo XC60's are available ranging from around 3 to 9 x monthly payment up front & 219 - 295 per month over 3 years ) - it's not as simple as comparing retail list prices, or classing the vehicles as 'luxury'.

3/ Non Disabled people can therefore obtain the same cars if they chose to, or can afford to.

So, ' can afford to' - perhaps they can, perhaps they can"t , your argument appears to say ' well if non disabled people can't afford to, then why should the disabled be able to afford these cars'?

Well my argument is 'why not ' , why should the disabled be 'poor' ( in your terms ) they have every right to spend their income, inc. any benefits, on what they please, just like the non disabled.

Benefits are meant to assist them, because they perhaps can't earn as much through their disability --well a Motability car is assisting them?


There is no need for anyone who is disabled to feel guilty, it's not free, we have to find a substantial payment up front, just like any non disabled person on a lease deal, and we have to pay 36 payments just like on any normal lease deal.

I am now disabled, and like any of my fellow disabled, I would gladly swop any benefits I receive or I am entitled for full health again.

.
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Old Jul 8th, 2015, 18:37   #5
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Now that I am back from my ( necessary ) physiotherapy session in the hydro pool, paid for by a charity, which I support financially anyway , I have re-read your post and feel that I must answer one more point.

Unless I have missed something, you are basing your opinion on your view of a potential benefits cheat, abusing the Motability scheme, without investigating the genuine benefits claimants in order to provide a proper balance.

That is the same as classing all Catholic Priests as child abusers because a tiny minority are, or all muslims are Terrorists etc. etc. - not very charitable of you?

We clearly do need to spend 'welfare' money better, and btw I abhor benefits cheats, and we do need to focus it on those who really need our help and don't have alternatives (i.e. the disabled, the elderly, those with serious health issues etc.) & move to a contributions based system so that only those who have paid in, can get money paid out, but putting your size 11's in & kicking even those who don't deserve your treatment is beyond the pale.
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Old Jul 8th, 2015, 20:13   #6
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@Funkydiver

You cannot form an opinion that a system is wrong simply because a few abuse it. Lets face it the same could be said about welfare in full. Welfare is in the main helpful to the many, yet all are cast in doubt because of a scummy few who abuse it.The same could be said of the tax system and people that form trusts to avoid tax etc etc etc.

Anyway, why should a disabled person not have a luxury car? What people fail to note is that getting a car say a Vauxhall Astra or Ford Focus which list around the 20k mark, will only be worth say 5k after 3 years come resale time. A large 'prestige' car such as xc60,BMWx3,Audi q5 etc will not lose as much or at least will lose the same, so no extra costs are incurred.

What I find an abuse of the system is our multi millionaire Prime Minister having claimed DLA. Whilst not illegal, I think that is morally wrong, especially considering his stance on the topic.

Take also people like Mike700, I am sure he will swap his xc60 and Parkinsons Disease for a 10 year old Ford Fiesta and good health tomorrow.

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Old Jul 9th, 2015, 00:48   #7
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I did multiquote the conversation and decided against it.

I'll set out my stall so it's plain and simple, but you're obviously educated folks so you may appreciate the view I have.

I do not, and NEVER have, condoned individual people for the lot they have in life. By the same token I am not going to insult you by being sympathetic as I don't personally know you or the challenges you face. I am however empathetic, I'm not a heartless ****, truly.

We all have challenges in life, physical, mental, financial, whatever it may be. I do not wish anyone to feel pain, but by the same token I cannot change that which is. It just is.

I do however have a view on that which pains me, so here goes. 4 kids under 13 (some might say it's my fault, lol) I pay tax, as does my wife. We're classified as "professionals" so one might expect some level of affluence and the fact is that is not the case. We get to week 3 in the month and it's scraping the barrel. So naturally I DO feel aggrieved when I go to houses (in my job) and observe the decadence that the benefits system provides. I observe the nice car on the drive, the free school meals for their kids, the music lessons and all the other trappings of abuse that is so prevalent in our current economy / political system.

I am not attacking individual people, and as Spitfire pointed out... the system is there to be abused. I just wish I had the lack of morality to do so (not that I'm insinuating that anyone here is doing so)

So a couple of points. Motability is a charity at face value. Let's face it, it's Government funded, and ergo funded by anyone paying tax. Their financial results prove it.

Mike, 200-300 per month (without running costs) is not exactly chicken feed. It's quite a substantial amount of cash for any family to expend on a vehicle. Especially when you consider that there are a number of vehicles out there that are perfect for task for half the price.

I do appreciate that WAV's need additional specification physically to cope... but really? The weight of a human being in a car designed for 5/6 folks? The market is awash with them, so surely there are a plethora of vehicles that are available at a more considered price point?

I will state right now that I am averse to charities full stop... I spent considerable time looking through roughly 100 charities accounts out of interest to see how these things work and where the money went. The net result is that Motability (as a psuedo-charity) actually stacks up very well... a large amount of the cash goes to the end user, Mencap on the other hand...
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Old Jul 9th, 2015, 06:16   #8
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Quote:
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I do not, and NEVER have, condoned individual people for the lot they have in life.....................
There seems to be a possibility here that you may have used the wrong word......??

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Old Jul 9th, 2015, 08:09   #9
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Jeez, iPads do a wonderful job of making you look like a complete idiot sometimes, beyond my own ability of course

It was supposed to be condemned
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Old Jul 9th, 2015, 09:44   #10
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I say again, that you are clearly basing your viewpoint on your experience of people you know or meet during the course of your working day, and unfortunately this does not give you the appropriate balance - you have clearly spent time investigating charities, so may I respectfully suggest that you now spend some time looking at the genuinely disabled who would have a seriously reduced lifestyle without Motability.

I realise that part of your argument is based on the type of car available, but I reiterate, that there is no law that states 'the disabled should be poor & devoid of choices '.

With regard to choice, a standard Bipper, would cost exactly the same per month as a 'luxury' car , without any difference in subsidy, if any, from Motability, but I grant you that the deposit required may be less - a deposit which does not come from the State, so goes back to personal choice of what to spend personal income/savings on.

Continuing on this 'choice' theme, having four children is not 'your fault' as quoted, but is 'your choice' , whereas disability is usually neither ' fault nor choice'.

As far as affording 200 plus monthly payments is concerned , then it is clearly down to personal circumstances, but my reason for quoting such figures was to provide you simply with the information that Motability users get no more of a financial deal than is available to anyone else, although they do not have the same financial checks as the non disabled, but this is because they, invariably, do not have the ability to command a similar income to others, and secondly because the DWP pay their Mobility benefit direct to. Motability, so there is no possibility of default, thereby reducing overall costs.

Btw. The Mobility benefit is very similar to the child benefit for four children.

Finally, I now mix with disabled people every day, some I look at in awe at how they cope with life - none of whom look for sympathy, and all of whom would gladly utilities VR's Fiesta solution.

.
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