Volvo Community Forum. The Forums of the Volvo Owners Club

Forum Rules Volvo Owners Club About VOC Volvo Gallery Links Volvo History Volvo Press
Go Back   Volvo Owners Club Forum > "Technical Topics" > XC90 '02–'15 General

Notices

XC90 '02–'15 General Forum for the P2-platform XC90 model

Information
  • VOC Members: There is no login facility using your VOC membership number or the details from page 3 of the club magazine. You need to register in the normal way
  • AOL Customers: Make sure you check the 'Remember me' check box otherwise the AOL system may log you out during the session. This is a known issue with AOL.
  • AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net users. Forum owners such as us are finding that AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net are blocking a lot of email generated from forums. This may mean your registration activation and other emails will not get to you, or they may appear in your spam mailbox

Thread Informations

Using Aisin ATF oil

Views : 3277

Replies : 32

Users Viewing This Thread :  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Oct 28th, 2020, 15:52   #21
gmonag
Premier Member
 

Last Online: Jan 15th, 2024 18:24
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Default

Here we go again - this old-wives-tale about flushing the gearbox doing harm.

Flushing an engine with old oil can cause problems, but not a auto gearbox. The fluid in the gearbox is constantly circulated through all the galleries, the torque converter and the cooler. There is a filter in the sump (not servicable) which will catch debris. There will only be debris if something is broken internally.

The flush method (so called Gibbons method after a member who posted it here a few years ago) is the official method as described in VIDA. It is simple and quick to carry out and will change almost all the fluid on one go. Do it and your gearbox will improve!

The only equipment you need (apart from normal spanners etc) is a length of clear pvc hose, 5cm of garden hose and a funnel.

I can go into more detail if you wish
__________________
Greg
gmonag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 28th, 2020, 16:28   #22
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 13:32
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmonag View Post
Here we go again - this old-wives-tale about flushing the gearbox doing harm.


The flush method (so called Gibbons method after a member who posted it here a few years ago) is the official method as described in VIDA. It is simple and quick to carry out and will change almost all the fluid on one go. Do it and your gearbox will improve!
That is for a NEW gearbox!

Seriously, i have no axe to grind here but don't want people to use a method that HAS BEEN PROVEN to cause problems on older boxes of various makes. Why do Volvo continue to use it on higher mileage cars? For the same reason as all manufacturers do, they know sooner or later a seal will fail inside the box and necessitate a new gearbox - you can almost hear them rub their hands in glee at the thought of it!

It's NOT an old-wives-tale and how many old wives do you know that change their own ATF?

The debris comes from the natural wear of clutch packs (in one of mine) and brake bands (in the other) wearing because they are friction material. This causes dust, some of it metallic and this will ultimately settle at the lowest point through gravity. Using the sump-dump, preferably with an electric oil transfer pump down the dipstick hole with the car raised so the point where the diptstick enters the box is as low as possible, to remove the old fluid means more of that sediment/debris will be removed - there is a neck round the drain plug on many gearbox sumps which means the debris sits around the drain plug.

Something we both agree on though, old fluid is one of the biggest enemies for an auto box.
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 28th, 2020, 16:36   #23
Bonefishblues
Premier Member
 

Last Online: Today 14:19
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Near Bicester, Oxon
Default

Just on that theme, I've seen images of engines that have been run without oil changes where the cack build up (stop me if I get too technical!) is very visible.

Is there anything similar for a failed autobox showing the build-up which is being discussed?
Bonefishblues is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bonefishblues For This Useful Post:
Old Oct 28th, 2020, 20:45   #24
gmonag
Premier Member
 

Last Online: Jan 15th, 2024 18:24
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
...Using the sump-dump, preferably with an electric oil transfer pump down the dipstick hole with the car raised so the point where the diptstick enters the box is as low as possible, to remove the old fluid means more of that sediment/debris will be removed - there is a neck round the drain plug on many gearbox sumps which means the debris sits around the drain plug...
The flush method begins with draining the sump.
__________________
Greg
gmonag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:01   #25
Danielpsmith
Master Member
 

Last Online: Yesterday 18:44
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Birmingham
Default

If it helps I tried both methods on my gearbox last year when it was failing and there was an immediate improvement after both ways of changing the oil but not for long.

The oil that came out was burnt and full of debris which turned out later after a rebuild was the clutch packs had completely burnt out.

But I don’t think either method is bad for it but if the damage is already done then no method will ultimately help.
Danielpsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Danielpsmith For This Useful Post:
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:30   #26
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 13:32
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielpsmith View Post
If it helps I tried both methods on my gearbox last year when it was failing and there was an immediate improvement after both ways of changing the oil but not for long.

The oil that came out was burnt and full of debris which turned out later after a rebuild was the clutch packs had completely burnt out.

But I don’t think either method is bad for it but if the damage is already done then no method will ultimately help.
There's a few things that can cause that, what box was it?
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:39   #27
Bashy
Aged Member
 
Bashy's Avatar
 

Last Online: Feb 20th, 2024 10:47
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Weeting
Default

I was under the impression that the reason not to do a "gibbons" jobby was purely so that you do not force any debris into parts it shouldn't reach, but once you've done a sump dump, added new and let that circulate for a time, then a "gibbons" is beneficial......
__________________
Regards, Bashy
MY07 (56 plate) V70 Geartronic 2.4 D5 185bhp 173k, 17", full leather, an auto-dimming mirror and auto wipers are the best it can do - I have added (poorly) limo black, rear camera and parking sensors
Bashy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bashy For This Useful Post:
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:45   #28
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 13:32
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashy View Post
I was under the impression that the reason not to do a "gibbons" jobby was purely so that you do not force any debris into parts it shouldn't reach, but once you've done a sump dump, added new and let that circulate for a time, then a "gibbons" is beneficial......
Not if it's high mileage, sump-dump every time but if it hasn't been done for a while, a sump-dump once a month for 2-3 months then once a year.
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:47   #29
Danielpsmith
Master Member
 

Last Online: Yesterday 18:44
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Birmingham
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
There's a few things that can cause that, what box was it?
It’s my 56 plate 185 6 speed it made 180000 miles I bought it on 113000 and done a lot of stop start so that’s what probably did it.

It was still driving but slipping constantly.
Danielpsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29th, 2020, 01:09   #30
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 13:32
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielpsmith View Post
It’s my 56 plate 185 6 speed it made 180000 miles I bought it on 113000 and done a lot of stop start so that’s what probably did it.

It was still driving but slipping constantly.
Sounds suspiciously like a combination of stop-start driving and lack of maintenance i.e. fluid changes that killed it. Surprised it uses clutch packs but not the clutch packs i'm more used to that replace the job of synchro rings in a manual box. No planetary gear sets in the box i've got with clutch packs!.
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:24.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.