Spicer Type Differential 4.10 gear ratio '57 PV444

[blueosprey90]

'57 PV 444.

I fear that I must descend into a differential rebuild. I don't want to do it! But it looks like my winter project. And I'm going to need a lot of help!

The car is rather noisy at the rear end. And I don't think it is wheel bearings. The rear wheels seem to spin without a grind. Differential fluid is topped up.

Before proceeding to remove the rear axle, I may try to remove the half shafts and the drive shaft and spin at the flange, but I'm thinking that my differential bearings are shot.

The differential appears to be a Spicer type differential with 4.10 gearing. So first question is how to specifically identify the diff. I assume it came out of an Amazon or a later 544.

The next question is how to replicate the casing spreader, which seems to cost about $250 from Dana Spicer. Can I make my own? Can I get the differential out without it?

[142 Guy]

I also suffer from a noisy and loose Dana 30 and have been putting off the rebuild for a while. I had talked to an individual who was in the midst of trying to remove the entrails from a big Dana diff on a truck without a spreader. He claimed it was possible. I never checked back to find out whether he was successful.

Lots of 'Good ol Boys' on the Jeep forums say no spreader required.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/...preader.19429/

I like the very last post which ends with 'it pops right out'. I do wonder how durable some of these repairs are. If you are successful, do post as I would be interested in hearing how you got it out.

[Vintagewrench]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

I also suffer from a noisy and loose Dana 30 and have been putting off the rebuild for a while. I had talked to an individual who was in the midst of trying to remove the entrails from a big Dana diff on a truck without a spreader. He claimed it was possible. I never checked back to find out whether he was successful.

Lots of 'Good ol Boys' on the Jeep forums say no spreader required.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/...preader.19429/

I like the very last post which ends with 'it pops right out'. I do wonder how durable some of these repairs are. If you are successful, do post as I would be interested in hearing how you got it out.

I agree, forcing and prying assemblies like this apart usually causes unseen warpage and damage.

[Army]

If the differential gears just fall out of the back of the rear axle / differential case that is a bad sign.

It means things are pretty worn / warped.

I don't have much experience of PV rear axles so I can't say it is a common thing. When I took mine to bits I needed to make a spreader =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showt...277319&page=24

Although it hasn't been mentioned I think it is important to say that trying to force a differential out with crow bars / pry bars / screwdrivers isn't in my opinion smart.

In addition "just putting a differential back in" is also not a smart idea. You need to expand the case (for this design) to make sure there is a pre-load on the axial bearings. This "stretching the case" method is pretty common. All of my Mercedes vehicles have differential cases that need to be / should be expanded. My Land Rover series 2a has a different system where you can adjust the pre-load via slotted screw type thingys...

...back to Volvo...

...I've done a fair amount of differential / rear axle work on my PV544 in that thread of mine. I'm sorry it is not all nicely contained within its own section. Page 24 has a bit - page 54 too and there are some more entrys I haven't rediscovered yet (!)

'Hope my comments help.

The main thing to remember is measure - keep things very very clean - take your time - be critical of wear - have fun trying to find the bearings (getting quite hard / expensive now) - have fun finding gears (very expensive / nearly impossible to get)...

...at least the seals seem to be available at the moment.

I think I added a link to a DIY "see how differential gears should mesh under load" PDF on another site somewhere in my thread too (you'll need this in the end to make sure you end up with a differential that does not make noises - which after all is the reason for this thread isn't it?)

[blueosprey90]

Thank you for taking the time to post the above, Army.

I'm a bit unsure if the differential really needs a rebuild. I have more of a "grinding sound" when I lift off the gas and coast. It also almost feels that I have too much end play somewhere in the drive train.

I'm still needing to identify what differential I actually have for purposes of ordering correct parts. I have a 4.10 differential so probably not original to the car.

This site has a lot of information.

http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~am...volvo_dana.htm

I think I have either a Spicer 27 with 10 spline axle, a Dana 30 with a 10 spline axle or a Dana 30 with a 27 spline axle. Apparently Spicer was renamed Dana, so the Spicer parts and Dana parts are the same.

According to the link, the Spicer 27 (10 spline) cross shafts are apparently different in size to the Dana 30 (10 spline). Length of Sp27 is 103 mm, 30 is 110 mm. Shaft dia for side pinion Sp27 is Ø15.9, 30 is 17.6. Spacer sleeve hole Sp27 & 30 both are Ø11 mm.

My next step is to crawl under the car to search for any identifying numbers beyond the 4.10 tag that i already found.

[142 Guy]

Originally Posted by blueosprey90

I'm a bit unsure if the differential really needs a rebuild. I have more of a "grinding sound" when I lift off the gas and coast. It also almost feels that I have too much end play somewhere in the drive train.

In terms of 'too much play', a trip under the car to rule out worn U joints would be a good first step. While under the car slide back to the differential and grab the side of the U joint yoke attached to the differential pinion. With the parking brakes engaged if you can get any significant rotation of the pinion you likely have a wear / adjustment issue. If you can get enough rotational motion that you can hear an audible clunk when you rotate the pinion back and forth then a trip to the insides of the differential is definitely on your dance card.

An absence of play does not mean you are out of the woods. Howling could indicate a bearing wear problem.

If the car has been retrofitted with a Dana / Spicer 30 with 27 spline pinion then parts are readily available, at least on this side of the Atlantic. Install and rebuild kits for the Dana / Spicer 27 are available.

[Army]

When I was lookijng for parts I got a lot of help from VP autoparts (as usual)

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A grinding sound could be solved by something simple like replacing the oil (and filling to the correct level).

In addition to 142 guy's suggestions I'd take the rear cover off the axle. This will allow you to get to the ID numbers on the crown wheel which might help with identification.

When inside you can see if there is more play in the four smaller internal differential cogs and / or the backlash between the pinion and crown wheel.

You could try and measure the backlash if you have a clock gauge / DTI and compare with the information in the service manual.

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Other thing that is perhaps worth comparing is different sounds with clutch engaged or disengaged and when the gearbox is selected in a gear or in neutral.

[blueosprey90]

What with the racing season over, I decided to get a jump start on next year by installing a close ratio transmission in the MGA. Of course, it's not going as planned! After pulling everything and then getting it about 50% back together, it seems that I need to pull everything once again so that I might modify the bell housing to mate better to the engine. While I'm at it, I also need to tweak the transmission's tail section and figure out what starter might work. (It turns out that the transmission has an early MGB front section and bell housing!) So not only is the race car project stalled as I regroup, but I haven't been under the PV444 either.

I did take the spousal unit for a long ride on Sunday. Oh, I lied to myself! Then I lied to myself some more. Eventually, the truth came out. It still sounds like a bad bearing in the differential - Prominent on overrun. I think I ruled out the transmission.

I dread the job ahead and I am a procrastinator by nature.

[Vintagewrench]

Jeff - Housing spreaders for Dana axles for as little as $83 and videos @ https://www.google.com/search?q=dana...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Derek UK]

In desperation, tape your phone to the axle and record the noise. 😎