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240 soft brakes - please help!

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Old Sep 30th, 2018, 10:44   #21
Stephen Edwin
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How do you know the brakes truly work, to say MOT standard?

How do you know the brakes are admitting air? That must impact on their performance.

Your suspicions are towards components. What about connections, tubes, hoses especially on that circuit .... after such long standing concerns, seek the unexpected init.
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Old Oct 16th, 2018, 00:18   #22
Nicholas Lewin
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A tentative update...

How I have managed to bleed air out of the system so many times I do not know for sure. I do have some suspicions tho'. Read-on...

Turns out that the replacement servo fitted as part of the saga had its adjustable operating pin adjusted quite a long way out; when you slackened-off the m/c from the servo, the pin pushed the m/c away. In other words the pin was applying pressure on the m/c all the time

I think that meant that the brakes have been binding slightly all the time and that explains why after a shortish journey, the brakes began to bind and squeal (and possibly also heat the brake fluid)

Pin now slacked-off (maybe a little too much) so there is now a little (1/2") slack in the brake pedal. I am using quite a lot of brake travel for a given brake demand, but the brakes are even and would pass an MOT

So I am going to put some miles on the old girl and when the MOT comes round in Jan, a job to do at that time will be to readjust the operating pin and remove some (but not all) of the brake pedal slack

So here's a question: does anyone on the forum know what the factory setting for the servo pin should be?

As ever thanks for all your help and concerns

Nick
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Old Oct 16th, 2018, 09:00   #23
Clifford Pope
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This might be useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnAiEGe86yM

I haven't watched it, but one comment said there should be a 1mm clearance on the rod.
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Old Oct 16th, 2018, 11:14   #24
Stephen Edwin
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Mr L.

The old girl deserves some miles. But what about the car?

*****

It does sound as if the obscure cause of your brake problem has been found. I hope so.

Have you spoken with the garage by whom the servo master cylinder were fitted?

I don't have a chronology of your various garages and what they did re the brakes. I am wondering.
  • How did the error occur? Did the items arrive separately or conjoined? Was information available to that garage as to adjusting the pin? Is that a standard issue re servo and master cylinder in other cars?
  • Re intermediate garage(s). Is that servo/master cylinder interaction part of a routine thorough checking procedure that they should have found the problem?
  • Re your new Best Friend For Ever garage. Have they told you how they found it? Was it suspecting the master cylinder and happening upon the wrongly adjusted pin?

Interesting that a brake bleeding problem appears to be a servo/master cylinder fitting problem.
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Old Oct 16th, 2018, 14:26   #25
Stephen Edwin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifford Pope View Post
This might be useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnAiEGe86yM

I haven't watched it, but one comment said there should be a 1mm clearance on the rod.
Thank you Clifford.

I don't know what language that video is in but. I suspect it answers some of my thoughts. That vehicle has a "pushrod" that has to be adjusted.

It might be that, Mr L's servo/master cylinder interaction is fairly standard to other cars also. The earlier garages, should have found it ???
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Old Oct 28th, 2018, 11:12   #26
Nicholas Lewin
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In brief...

I spent about 4 hours with my new best friend for ever garage (as u put it Mr R), bleeding, road testing and looking at the M/C and servo so I was actively involved in what was going on - deliberately

I think that me going back to previous garages and saying that the brakes are too soft with too much travel has resulted in any amount of adjustment and fiddling to resolve the problem - so much so that all factory settings have been long-since overridden

I am putting some miles on the old girl and the brakes have quite a bit of travel and are quite noisy - especially once warm. I will persevere and maybe when the annual service/MOT are done in January, I may replace discs/pads with OEM kit to eliminate the noise. At the same time, we will readjust the servo operating pin to take up some of the initial brake pedal movement, but not so much as to be always pushing on the back of the M/C

The bleeding has, I think been a red-herring. What I need to see is what the brakes are like after a few 100/1000 miles...
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Old May 31st, 2019, 12:14   #27
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Quick update...

So since October the brakes have been working satisfactorily but consistently noisily and they were doing my head in given the amount of work that has gone on!

About 130 miles ago I replaced all the discs and pads with OEM Volvo parts

Thus far, the brakes now no longer howl and squeal and more importantly, as they bed in they become more positive

I have recycled all of previous pattern junk - including Bosch branded pads. Generally I am not convinced that you have to have OEM stuff but this has been a salutory lesson

Having replaced the valve rubbers and checked valve clearance, the old girl's going quite well at the moment!
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Old Jun 2nd, 2019, 16:11   #28
Stephen Edwin
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Olde Nick you call the jam jar the old girl.

Anyways....buying regularly from a good Volvo dealership is not a bad idea. If they can supply the parts then the parts tend to work. Small things mean a lot. e.g. A forum discussion taught me that 240 wiper arms have strong springs and the wiper blades need to be the right degree of softness to work well.

Some parts are only available from dealerships, as a regular customer they might well go the extra mile....and....if we do not buy from Volvo dealers we might lose that source of parts.

There was an interesting case downstairs in the 700/900 section that turned out to be a fuel pump. The only source was approx. a re-build kit from a Volvo dealer on back order from Sweden.

Some parts the dealers cannot even obtain. Some parts their prices have to be too high. But their prices are often reasonable and sometimes less than alternative suppliers.

There is no one right simple answer init.


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Old Aug 28th, 2019, 00:34   #29
Nicholas Lewin
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Oh if it was only so simple..!

Come on folks, what going on? So, look, every darn component in the brake system has been replaced except the so-called spider valve, the rear reduction valves and some of the rigid pipework

My brakes are really noisy once hot and, from time to time, actually stop the car at low speeds on their own. That suggests binding and the brakes constantly rubbing doesn't it? Also the brake fluid level appears to go UP over time...

So what would cause that? There are no visible leaks
I have no technical setting for the servo/master cylinder interface - does anyone know that? (the amount that the servo pin should push on the M/C when not in use)
fluid levels increasing suggests an air leak but not a fluid leak?
faulty refurbished calipers?

Thoughts please folks...
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Old Aug 28th, 2019, 15:45   #30
Clifford Pope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Lewin View Post
(the amount that the servo pin should push on the M/C when not in use)
Should it push at all when not in use? Commonsense suggests to me that if your foot is off the pedal then the MC should not be being activated at all?
And if the MC is being activated slightly all the time than pads will be rubbing slightly, getting hot, causing noise, vaporising fluid, causing vapour bubbles - generally all the faults you are describing.
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