Braaaaakes, before I start

[Skyedriver]

Owned the car for a number of years, brakes always been good. Standard set up, discs, pads, calipers replaced where necessary, last work a couple of year ago.
A couple of weeks ago I started to notice a change in the pedal so been "keeping an eye on it".
It's getting more pronounced now, first push of the pedal and it feels soft, half pedal travel rather than at the top, pumps up a bit.
Now at first, it was just the first press of the day but now it's more frequent.
With the engine off, the pedal is rock solid.
No apparent fluid loss.
With the engine running, it feels like it may fail at some point so taken it off the road for an inspection tomorrow.
Any thoughts, mine is master cylinder or air in the system but the rock hard pedal without the engine running makes me wonder if it's the servo.
Did wonder about pad knock back from a warped disc or wheel bearing failing but there's no vibration when driving.
thanks in advance for any pointers

[Laird Scooby]

My first thoght on this is master cylinder beginning to fail or a warped seal in it - either way i think you need to either strip and repair it or renew the master cylinder.

Does the car have ABS?

[Skyedriver]

Hello, yes, ABS, it's a 97 model with 189K miles on it.
Woke up this morning wondering if it's a swelling flexi brake pipe, or just air in the system (how I don't know as there's no leak and nothing has been disturbed) but it is most likely the master cylinder I think.
Methodical inspection today me thinks...

[Skyedriver]

Parts for Volvo don't list the M/C, will ring Jamie but anywhere else suggested?
Rather buy a new cylinder than replace seals but don't want a cheap copy that doesn't work....
I'm north west Scotland so not close to any Volvo dealer.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Skyedriver

Hello, yes, ABS, it's a 97 model with 189K miles on it.
Woke up this morning wondering if it's a swelling flexi brake pipe, or just air in the system (how I don't know as there's no leak and nothing has been disturbed) but it is most likely the master cylinder I think.
Methodical inspection today me thinks...

Originally Posted by Skyedriver

Parts for Volvo don't list the M/C, will ring Jamie but anywhere else suggested?
Rather buy a new cylinder than replace seals but don't want a cheap copy that doesn't work....
I'm north west Scotland so not close to any Volvo dealer.

A swelling brake pipe wouldn't cause that kind of behaviour, usually a "springy" brake pedal.

There is a breather in the reservoir cap and brake fluid is hygroscopic so it will have absorbed moisture. When was the fluid last changed? It's possible that simply flushing the system through (best done with an Easibleed) will return the system to normal operation.
However, the symptoms certainly point to master cylinder failure.

As for possible suppliers, all the usual suspects such as Skandix, IPD, FCP Euro, Braydon Motors (now trading under a different name that i don't know) and also Bigg Red. http://www.biggred.co.uk/

BiggRed offer a rebuild service (can't find any new ones listed but guessed at your model) which might be an option and also M/C rebuild kits.
If you order from anywhere like Skandix, FCP, Rock Auto etc, double check what you're ordering is for a right hand drive car as most of them are overseas and drive on the wrong side of the road!

[mjk164]

Braydon motors have now joined forces with Sentinel Volvo, their sister company and trade under Braydon or Trust Car Parts Ltd, on the same Braydon phone number 0208985 2255.

Order up a replacement master cylinder.

[Skyedriver]

Thanks for info above.
Thought I'd found the problem, having checked rear calipers which are both OK although one set of pads a little tight, I moved to the front.
One of the nearside pads had de-bonded, the material loose from the backing and was actually locking the wheel from going in reverse. Hadn't been obvious on the drive back from holiday but that was nearly all forward motion.
Replaced the broken pad with a temporary packing piece lump of wood and now no pedal at all!
Tried a quick bleed of all calipers and master cylinder but still no pedal. No pedal but I can pump fluid through the system!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Skyedriver

Thanks for info above.
Thought I'd found the problem, having checked rear calipers which are both OK although one set of pads a little tight, I moved to the front.
One of the nearside pads had de-bonded, the material loose from the backing and was actually locking the wheel from going in reverse. Hadn't been obvious on the drive back from holiday but that was nearly all forward motion.
Replaced the broken pad with a temporary packing piece lump of wood and now no pedal at all!
Tried a quick bleed of all calipers and master cylinder but still no pedal. No pedal but I can pump fluid through the system!

That dodgy pad probably saved what little life was left in the master cylinder!

New set of front pads, some gentle attention to the rear pad backing plates with a file and a wire brush in the rear calipers to remove anything that could cause the pads to stick in the caliper, likewise on the fronts (especially as they'll be new pads) and a new master cylinder.

Open the bleed nipples on the calipers before fitting the new pads so as you push the pistons back into the calipers, old fluid is pushed out and not back up the line (which can cause ABS modulator and/or master cylinder failure because of dirt in the fluid), top up the new M/C and gently operate the brake pedal until you have fluid coming through, remembering to keep the resevoir topped up.

Once all 4 corners have fluid coming out of the bleed nipples, close all except the one you start the bleeding with.

If memory serves, the correct bleeding procedure is rear left then right, front left then right.

[Skyedriver]

OK, Volvo master cylinder no longer available..
A couple of on line suppliers such as "Onlinecarparts" and "Bestpartsstore" advertise them but have no knowledge of these companies. Price £113 + P&P (about £9 poss more to Scottish Highlands)
Skandix don't list them, nor Biggred, Braydon/Sentinel put me on hold them cut me off.
Jamie at Parts for Volvo did a search and came back with no longer available.
Few second hand ones on ebay but that's just buying possible trouble.

It's part no. 3530354 if anyone has a known good one.

Cheers

[bob12]

Without searching on the internet .... have you phoned FRF, Swansea, mentioning this Forum. They will give you a definitive 'Volvo' response for the part. Bob.