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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor repairer?

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Old Jul 9th, 2021, 08:29   #31
c1800
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Originally Posted by Clan View Post
why don't you just transplant a complete motronic system from a 240 or 940 to try ? It may or may not suit the advance curve but you can always use the original distributor and use Motronoc for fuel only .
Same engine capacity, its going to be pretty close and the lambda sensor will keep it in check .
Ive been using the Emerald M3D system on one of my cars since the 1990's .
Yes, there's always a better mousetrap out there. in my shoes, i'm looking for a well running system as originally designed. Some like to upgrade, improve to get it running better than designed. So be it. But convert to SU's? Or some other electronic system, that never ran on a B20? find all the parts, have them rebuilt, tuned, cobble together the linkages, then deal with needles, etc. did you buy the car to save money? or expect it to be running spot on? yes hundreds (or more) dollars (pounds) to replace Djet parts, but it'll run pretty well when properly tuned and has parts that are in good nick and appropriate for the system. isn't that the challenge of vintage car? if not, maybe a modern Toyota would be better, (which are very good cars).
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Old Jul 9th, 2021, 14:55   #32
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Interesting and completely beyond my comprehension. I will read up on it, though as it certainly is intriguing.
It will look the same but run better and hopefully be more economical with the much finer control of the fuel mix ratio .
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Old Jul 9th, 2021, 18:59   #33
142 Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clan View Post
why don't you just transplant a complete motronic system from a 240 or 940 to try ? It may or may not suit the advance curve but you can always use the original distributor and use Motronoc for fuel only .
Same engine capacity, its going to be pretty close and the lambda sensor will keep it in check .
Ive been using the Emerald M3D system on one of my cars since the 1990's .
It might run on a B20; but, likely not very well. At least in North America, any EFI from a later 240 / 740 / 940 will utilize a narrow band O2 sensor and will be set up to run at an AFR of 14.7 when it is in closed loop operation. The B230 engines are not the height of sophistication; but, they are newer than the B20 which may not be so amenable to running at 14.7 under all conditions. Also, remember that most EFI systems running narrow band sensors go into open loop operation above 70 - 80% engine load and just run feed forward off the fuel map. If your fuel map is not correctly set up for the engine you are in no-mans land. O2 sensors are a device to correct for gradual drift in the engines operating parameters. They are not a substitute for a correctly set up fuel map.

If you retained the original D jet injectors they are grossly oversized for the size of the engine. They flow about 650 ml /min @ 3 Bar. Any 240 / 740 / 940 Motronic system will be set up for smaller injectors so you will be delivering way too much fuel with the PW values in the base fuel maps, likely beyond the correction limits for the closed loop system. You would need to use the native fuel injectors from the original B230 application which then gets you into a major re engineering effort for injector holders and plumbing on the B20E/F.

The other factor to consider is that the cranking, starting and warm up factors are all set up for the particular intake configuration on the B230 which is completely unlike the B20E. The B20E/F injectors sit in the head right above the valve. The B230 injectors are farther away in the intake manifold. We also have the iron versus aluminum head thing which affects warm up enrichment.

I am going to go out on what is a fairly strong limb and offer the opinion that transplanting a Motronic system from a B230 to the B20E/F engine is going to result in an engine that runs worse than it does on the D jet system, if at all. If you want to go to a more current EFI system than the D jet, then go all the way to a stand along EFI that is configurable through a connection to a lap top. There are lots and lots of systems to choose from.

Last edited by 142 Guy; Jul 9th, 2021 at 19:04.
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Old Jul 9th, 2021, 21:55   #34
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Gentlemen,
Courtesy of the (VAST) knowledge freely and unreservedly offered here, I have decided to go forward with a Megasquirt conversion. I do not think it is tenable to support 50-year-old defunct electrics into their 60th or 70th years.

Carbs - Yes, but a pile of valves, capacitors, and solder, held together by prayers? - nope, not for a reliable daily runner. A coddled garaged weekender, perhaps.

And no modern Toyotas, dammit! I will not go quietly into the night!
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Old Jul 9th, 2021, 23:43   #35
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If you are going to try the conversion yourself, make sure you read the megamanual at least a couple of times. I would recommend that you install the MSExtra firmware rather than original B&G firmware so that part of the manual that deals with the firmware and specific configuration and tuning details is not relevant. However, the intro to how the code works and the pointers on wiring and fuel supply are valuable.

http://www.megamanual.com/mtabcon.htm

After you are familiar with the basics of the system, you can then dig into the MSExtra hardware and set up manuals which are more specific to MSExtra implementaitons.

https://www.msextra.com/manuals/
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