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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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1972 pv1800es

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Old Jan 12th, 2022, 08:24   #251
Othen
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Default Some Good News

Delores has moved from being stored in a fairly remote barn to a well appointed domestic garage for the rest of the winter. It is much easier to monitor (and use) the motor car there. The good news is that 'Lizabeth (AKA 'Janet') reports that the oil leak under the engine/gearbox has stopped. It looks like some combination of changing the cork gasket under the rocker box cover, the rubber seal on the filler cap and the Barr's fluid has fixed the issue without having to take things apart.

The final part of this jigsaw will be to swap to 20W50 mineral oil when the motor car is serviced in the spring.

:-)
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Old Jan 14th, 2022, 17:16   #252
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The final part of this jigsaw will be to swap to 20W50 mineral oil when the motor car is serviced in the spring.

:-)
For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.
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Old Jan 14th, 2022, 17:48   #253
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For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.
Some very good points there, one being you've rebuilt your engine and have only run it on synthetic cince new. The molecules in synthetic oils tend to be smaller than their mineral counterparts which can encourage leaks and/or burning on cars with engines that have never been rebuilt and run since new on mineral 20W50 say.

Also in the UK, the climate is much warmer (although at only about 3C here today it doesn't feel it!) so a 5Wxx multigrade is probably a bit too thin for us and again, would encourage leaks/burning.

There is also the argument on a car used mainly for short journeys that the condensation produced when started/while cold doesn't get burned off and contaminates the oil with an acidic mix so even with synthetic, it's probably wise to change the oil at least once a year, regardless of mileage.
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Old Jan 14th, 2022, 18:01   #254
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For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.
Thank you for that - some very good points and well worth consideration.

It hardly ever gets to -10C here in the UK (maybe once a decade, and then not for long, indeed this year we have probably only had a dozen frosty morns). As Dave says above, 5W50 is a bit thin for our climate, particularly in a 50 year old motor.

I changed my 244 (B21a engine) to 20W50 (from 10W40 semi synthetic) a few years ago with entirely positive results. As with Janet's motor car I do quite a low mileage in the RB (about 3000 miles/year), but I do use it as a more or less daily driver for local trips. Janet tends to use Delores less frequently, but when she does it tends to be for longer journeys.

I change the oil every year in all my older cars (and will do the same with Delores); I am convinced that the key to longevity for gas engines is frequent oil changes - cheap oil is fine as long as it is changed often.

Best wishes,

Alan
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Old Jan 14th, 2022, 18:09   #255
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Some very good points there, one being you've rebuilt your engine and have only run it on synthetic cince new. The molecules in synthetic oils tend to be smaller than their mineral counterparts which can encourage leaks and/or burning on cars with engines that have never been rebuilt and run since new on mineral 20W50 say.

Also in the UK, the climate is much warmer (although at only about 3C here today it doesn't feel it!) so a 5Wxx multigrade is probably a bit too thin for us and again, would encourage leaks/burning.

There is also the argument on a car used mainly for short journeys that the condensation produced when started/while cold doesn't get burned off and contaminates the oil with an acidic mix so even with synthetic, it's probably wise to change the oil at least once a year, regardless of mileage.
This is a useful discussion Dave. See above, I think 5W50 is a bit thin for the UK's climate - I shouldn't think it has been lower than -3C at all this winter.

My experience with the RB (as you know a B21a engine) and 20W50 mineral oil has been entirely positive. I know the B18e motor is a generation older, but the bottom ends are not all that dissimilar. I'll try 20W50 in Delores when I service it in the spring and see if it cures that last vestige of an oil leak (it was like the Torrey Canyon when Janet first bought it!).

Alan

PS. GAM has been running on 20W50 mineral oil for at least the period of David's ownership (it even came with a tin in the boot). I was planning to continue with the same.
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Old Jan 15th, 2022, 19:29   #256
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A couple of points.

5W50 will not be 'thin' for the UK's climate. Under hot test conditions 20W50 and 5W50 will display approximately the same viscosity. That is what the 50 rating is all about. The difference will be at low temperatures where the 20 in the 20W50 rating may cause it to look more like Marmite versus the 5W50 which will flow better. If cold weather operation is not a significant issue then 20W50 will do the trick.

The blend of molecules making up a synthetic are not necessarily smaller than conventional oils; but, there may be a problem with lack of seal swell. I do know that when Mobil 1 was first introduced, oil leakage from neoprene / silicone crank seals was not uncommon on engines switched from conventional to synthetic because the seals shrunk. The synthetic lacked whatever caused the seals to swell. As far as I am aware, that is not an issue with modern synthetic oils and probably would not be an issue if you are running the OEM felt seals.

As a related observation, conventional motor oils get their extended viscosity index by the addition of Viscosity Index Improvers. Viscosity Index Improvers deteriorate / loose their effectiveness with age. Both 20W50 and 10W40 wide viscosity index conventional motor oil require more VI than conventional 10W30 or 5W20 so your more regular replacement of 20W50 is a good idea. Synthetics are a different can of chemistry.

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