D5 (2005 on) Engine Oil

[younger06]

As if the oil wasn't expensive enough!!!

On a side note........looking at the spec of the new 4 cylinder diesels, the new D5 is going to be awsome! (225bhp and 450nm)

[Shadeyman]

Originally Posted by younger06

So, with all of that in mind, what's the opinion on using a good quality 5W/30 A5/B5 considering that the car does very few short trips and most mornings will be doing 120kmh for almost 2 hours after it is started??

Millers Oil XF 5W30 Longlife Eco oil fully synthetic (A5/B5)
Mobil 1 Super 3000 5W30 FE fully synthetic (A5/B50
Motul 8100 5W30 Eco-energy fully synthetic (A5/B5)


I will be doing 6 oil changes a year, the really expensive oils are just not a runner for me.

I stick to what Volvo recommends for my XC90 and I buy the best I can afford, I suggest others do the same.
I do a full oil change at least once a year, sometimes twice if I've done in excess of 15,000 miles that year.

[Backhill1]

Originally Posted by younger06

So, with all of that in mind, what's the opinion on using a good quality 5W/30 A5/B5 considering that the car does very few short trips and most mornings will be doing 120kmh for almost 2 hours after it is started??

Millers Oil XF 5W30 Longlife Eco oil fully synthetic (A5/B5)
Mobil 1 Super 3000 5W30 FE fully synthetic (A5/B50
Motul 8100 5W30 Eco-energy fully synthetic (A5/B5)


I will be doing 6 oil changes a year, the really expensive oils are just not a runner for me.

I have checked each of these and the Mobil needs to be (possibly just a typo)

Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5W-30
The Millers is Good also and they also do this in 0W-30 so this would be spot on.
The Motul is not quite as good but would be perfectly acceptable (extremely marginal)

Comparing the spec with the Castrol there is next to nothing in it unless you have some holidays in the arctic circle planned, the Millers in 0W-30 would be completly comparable.

I’m not sure how costs compare but Mobil Oils are very good indeed and even when we put new oil through the lab prior to testing engines they always meet the correct standards and normally they do not scrimp on detergents etc.
Even from 45 Galllon drums we never see any real issues.

If you have a preference I will download the complete data sheet for it and compare in more detail as this will often provide more information than the manufacturer will provide.

[younger06]

I think I can get the Millers 0W30 in a 25ltr drum for just under €120.
€30 per 6ltrs sounds great to me.
Could you have a closer look at the Millers for me, it would be much appreciated.

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

So, with all of that in mind, what's the opinion on using a good quality 5W/30 A5/B5 considering that the car does very few short trips and most mornings will be doing 120kmh for almost 2 hours after it is started??

Millers Oil XF 5W30 Longlife Eco oil fully synthetic (A5/B5)
Mobil 1 Super 3000 5W30 FE fully synthetic (A5/B50
Motul 8100 5W30 Eco-energy fully synthetic (A5/B5)


I will be doing 6 oil changes a year, the really expensive oils are just not a runner for me.

Millers, Mobil and Motul all make good oils (Mobil in particular), but the A5/B5 designation only applies to x/30 grades. If you have more than 100K miles total or use more than a liter of oil every 10K miles, I would move up a grade and use an x/40 Acea C3 (If it has a turbo), or an Acea A3/B4 if not.
As you are doing a few hours at 120 every day, fuel contamination is less of a factor, so you should be good for the full Volvo max OCI if the block and injection system are in good condition.
All engine oil companies (Mixer in the case of Millers) have an engine specific oil guide that will list their best oil. Mobil Super is not as good as M1 0/40 and no where near as good as Shell Ultra.

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

I think I can get the Millers 0W30 in a 25ltr drum for just under €120.
€30 per 6ltrs sounds great to me.
Could you have a closer look at the Millers for me, it would be much appreciated.

Do you mean a drum of this Millers 0/30:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-73731-mi...ngine-oil.aspx

Good stuff, but expensive! It's a short cycle use race oil with minimal detegents, so no go for normal road use.

Millers XF Longlife 0/30 is OK, but it's still only an A1/B1 equivalent. If I felt obliged to use it, I would add half can of Liqui Moly Ceratec every oil filter change AND change it twice as often as the Volvo max interval. The Longlife designation only applies to the detergents, not to the anti wear additives.

The 100c viscosity of Mills is 9.4cSt. I don't know which exact oil Volvo use, as it might be Edge professional or an FST 0w30, BUT they are all about 9.3 centistrokes, so the viscosity is effectively the same.

If you can't use an A3/B4 engine oil, half a can of Cery every oil change works wonders:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...oiladb=web.nsf

[Backhill1]

Originally Posted by younger06

I think I can get the Millers 0W30 in a 25ltr drum for just under €120.
€30 per 6ltrs sounds great to me.
Could you have a closer look at the Millers for me, it would be much appreciated.

Younger 06 can you confirm the exact spec you are looking at from millers to buy?

I am assuming Millers Oil XF 5W30 Long-life Eco oil fully synthetic (A5/B5) or if the 0W/30 is everything else all the same?

Once you confirm I will do some comparisons and let you know. At that price it’s a really good value oil and shows what you can get when you take away advertising costs and image away.

Even if you were to change at 12K you would be quid’s in at that price. From the operating cycle you are describing you are not really stressing the oil at all.

[Backhill1]

Skyship007 can you please explain why the following comment i made is 100% wrong as I am a little confused, based on an effort to provide some clarity to a perfectly reasonable OP.

"But if you are sticking with the 18K intervals I would be very wary of deviating unless it was a fully synthetic A5/B5 0W/30".

This is after all the OEM recommendation and service interval “don’t shoot the messenger”

Volvo have extensively tested these engines and do not pick service intervals at random i was merely reiterating the importance of utilising the correct oil in line with manufacturers recommendations, any deviation could alter for the better or worse pending the oil you choose.

In addition it would be very rare to endorse or recommend additives and I do not even know if these are available in the UK. The damage some of these products can do to cylinder components in service can take years to show up especially in engines with Teflon coating or require a very specific design (micron rating) of abrasion to control oil consumption. Or in some applications provide great improvement’s.

I would appreciate your comments as if I have miss informed someone I would like to advise them further and amend my statement.

[Shadeyman]

Originally Posted by skyship007

If you look at UOA results for oils containing Titanium, you will notice one thing, none of them contain enough to make any difference to the results. It's just too expensive to use as anything other than an adverstising gimic.

Castrol Edge Titanium has around 40ppm of Titanium I believe, that's approximately the same as other top brands. If it is a gimmick what did they use to replace the zinc if not titanium?

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by Backhill1

Skyship007 can you please explain why the following comment i made is 100% wrong as I am a little confused, based on an effort to provide some clarity to a perfectly reasonable OP.

"But if you are sticking with the 18K intervals I would be very wary of deviating unless it was a fully synthetic A5/B5 0W/30".

This is after all the OEM recommendation and service interval “don’t shoot the messenger”

Volvo have extensively tested these engines and do not pick service intervals at random i was merely reiterating the importance of utilising the correct oil in line with manufacturers recommendations, any deviation could alter for the better or worse pending the oil you choose.

In addition it would be very rare to endorse or recommend additives and I do not even know if these are available in the UK. The damage some of these products can do to cylinder components in service can take years to show up especially in engines with Teflon coating or require a very specific design (micron rating) of abrasion to control oil consumption. Or in some applications provide great improvement’s.

I would appreciate your comments as if I have miss informed someone I would like to advise them further and amend my statement.

Firstly Volvo do not develop or test engines or gearboxes, they just look around at what is available and use another cars engine and drive train. Their service intervals are based on maximum limits, so it says in their documents that the maximum oil change is X miles, or should be based on an OLM service due light in newer cars.
It is upto an owner when they wish to change the oil, although it's very unlikely that using the max OCI will result in a failure within the warranty period, although not impossible.

The real issue is that owners of older diesels get confused over what A5/B5 designation is about, because it only applies to x/30 grade oils. No one in a German Volvo dealer or Iffy lube using non Castrol Edge oils uses an x/30, it's not allowed because test have revealed high oil consumption at autobahn speeds and higher leak rates. The German Volvo dealers use Edge 0/40 not 0/30 in older cars (There are DPF rated versions of Edge 0/40).

Liqui Moly are owned by Foochs (With a u and not oo) the biggest German refinery owner and are world leaders in oil additive technology.
Ceratec was fully tested in a variety of engines and is based on a mix of top grade Moly (Mo) and Boron Nitride in an ultra fine suspension form. Both chemicals have been used for many years as oil additives in race car and truck engines.

One of the Millers oils contains a copy of Ceratec, BUT it costs big bucks and is for race use only. VW do recommend its use and their dealers sell it in Germany for use with older TDI engines. It reduces rattles and cuts the Iron and other wear metals in a used oil analysis in half, although it may not be as effective as changing to an expensive G4 5/40 Synthoil in some cases. It's easy to find in the UK. TDS:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/m...a%20Tec_EN.pdf

German car engines get pushed very hard on long autobahn trips and Cery was developed because VW in particular knew they were getting issues with high oil consumption rates with DPF equipped cars, so could not change to using an HDEO like Mobil Delvac as those oils have too much Zinc. Using thicker oils under warranty is a no go because it changes fuel consumption, so there was a big need for a longer lasting oil additive than normal Moly.

A dealer can't use oil additives, although they can sell them. Mixing products is not a certified procedure, so they just sell you the can. They do not use it and even I would not use it if an engine is under warranty. It's been in use for many years even with new engines and no one has ever reported an increase in oil consumption, in fact it will reduce it in older engines.

The Teflon and MoS2 sprays used to line new engine cylinders are only used to improve the way the rings bed in and to avoid issues caused by owner abuse or changing the factory fill oil too early. It also allows Edge or other full synthetics to be used for factory fill, which avoids confusion over which oil to use as a top up.

In reality most owners miss the point about the advantages of using a better oil mix than an
A5/B5 0w30, as the first thing to fail if you don't get the oil game right is the turbo bearings. Slighty thicker oil and Ceratec will help reduce turbo bearing wear, so it's worth a tenner an oil change to improve the mix in my opinion, even though I use Shell Ultra which is rather ahead in base stock quality terms in comparison to an HC synthetic like Edge and much cheaper.