Any Advice?

[Chris152]

LS - nice plan, tho the Mrs left years ago so that would mean two trips. Typical ;-) But I see the sense in the best car we can afford plan.
Bob - Merthyr and Bristol are a stone's throw from here - again, par for the course!
Ok, I think we need to get Haynes manual asap.

Two more questions specifically on the two cars currently on the radar, if I haven't exhausted everyone's patience already:
First, 2.3 with carbs / 2.0 with injection - neither's perfect for economy/ performance, but what are the relative merits of each?
Second, both have issues with the speedo - one doesn't work, the other has no lights to the display. I've watched a video on getting to the speedo and it looks do-able, but not sure about fixing it. Do they both sound fairly straightforward jobs? I know nothing about electronics, my lad slightly more.
Thanks!

ps Bob - I didn't check the bodywork as well as you describe. After a dry week, the skies opened Sunday and it was rain and puddles. I need to go back and check before parting wth any money, if that's what we decide to do.

[john.wigley]

Again, there will be those more knowledgeable than I, Chris, but I believe the make and model of carburettor fitted varied with the year of manufacture and / or engine variant.

In general terms, carburettors wear and go out of tune over time but repair kits were - probably still are - available to recondition them. If I was to offer one piece of advice, it would be never to go out without a spare diaphragm. They rupture and can leave you stranded but are relatively easy to replace.

A point worth bearing in mind is that if you are considering a carburettor car, it may also (if it hasn't been updated with electronic) be equipped with points ignition. I always found those of Volvo and Bosch manufacture the most reliable, and, once again, always carried a spare set. I found that the 'heel' of cheaper 'pattern' parts tended to wear down much more quickly and required frequent re-adjustment.

It sounds as though you are really getting down to the 'nitty-gritty' now. I think that the advice of buying the best car you can find, that best suits your needs, still stands though, regardless of engine size or variant. In a market that is not awash with examples for sale, any purchase of a car now between 28 and 45 years old will almost certainly involve a degree of compromise.

Regards, John.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Again, there will be those more knowledgeable than I, Chris, but I believe the make and model of carburettor fitted varied with the year of manufacture and / or engine variant.

In general terms, carburettors wear and go out of tune over time but repair kits were - probably still are - available to recondition them. If I was to offer one piece of advice, it would be never to go out without a spare diaphragm. They rupture and can leave you stranded but are relatively easy to replace.

A point worth bearing in mind is that if you are considering a carburettor car, it may also (if it hasn't been updated with electronic) be equipped with points ignition. I always found those of Volvo and Bosch manufacture the most reliable, and, once again, always carried a spare set. I found that the 'heel' of cheaper 'pattern' parts tended to wear down much more quickly and required frequent re-adjustment.

It sounds as though you are really getting down to the 'nitty-gritty' now. I think that the advice of buying the best car you can find, that best suits your needs, still stands though, regardless of engine size or variant. In a market that is not awash with examples for sale, any purchase of a car now between 28 and 45 years old will almost certainly involve a degree of compromise.

Regards, John.

All good advice there,
The volvo bosch points were utterly reliable over their 6000 mile life , And if the car was serviced properly and the diaphragm changed every 24000 miles so were they . The later pierberg-stromberg carb from around 1979 and later were a problem after a few years with a host of different things going wrong with them , but nothing a mils overhaul would not sort out .
All volvo carbs were emission versions with sealed throttle spindles from 1970 model year , throttle spindles were never a problem they did not wear . .

I have a number of sets of new old stock Genuine volvo / bosch contact breaker points in right hand form , from the late 80's before they they went poor quality , if anyone is interested .

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

LS - nice plan, tho the Mrs left years ago so that would mean two trips. Typical ;-) But I see the sense in the best car we can afford plan.
Bob - Merthyr and Bristol are a stone's throw from here - again, par for the course!
Ok, I think we need to get Haynes manual asap.

Two more questions specifically on the two cars currently on the radar, if I haven't exhausted everyone's patience already:
First, 2.3 with carbs / 2.0 with injection - neither's perfect for economy/ performance, but what are the relative merits of each?
Second, both have issues with the speedo - one doesn't work, the other has no lights to the display. I've watched a video on getting to the speedo and it looks do-able, but not sure about fixing it. Do they both sound fairly straightforward jobs? I know nothing about electronics, my lad slightly more.
Thanks!

ps Bob - I didn't check the bodywork as well as you describe. After a dry week, the skies opened Sunday and it was rain and puddles. I need to go back and check before parting wth any money, if that's what we decide to do.

Swings and roundabouts on the carb/injection dilemna, personally i'd go for a 2.3 carb over a 2.0 injection but bear in mind Johns good advice about carrrying a spare diaphragm with you! Had a pinhole that i could only see after stretching the diaphragm over a lightbox at work that stopped my 144 in its tracks!

As John also mentioned, points triggered ignition is well worth updating with a small, relatively cheap module, i've known many contact breakers (points) to close up causing an "FTP" (Fail To Proceed) even when genuine Bosch/car brand points have been used and set correctly. Also they are secured by two screws, both simply slotted. The slots wear over time and being able to get the screws tight isn't always possible.

Regarding the speedo, it's easy enough to change the bulbs (even convert to LEDs) and much easier than repairing the speedo. However i'm guessing from the way you've written it that the duff speedo is what you currently believe to be the better car?
Might be worth taking the bull by the horns and either trying to repair it or buy a working cluster and call it good.

[Chris152]

Yes, the speedo issue is on the more expensive car, LS - along with the heated rear window and intermittent wipe. And apparently the clutch judders some on that one, too, and the cam belt will need doing on it as well.
The difference between the two (apart from what I've already detailed above) is about half the cost on the cheaper one, more rust colouration (from what I can tell in pics of the more expensive one), an extra 100 000 miles on its clock and 10 owners rather than two.
TBH, I think I'm caught between seeing it as a project to learn from, on one hand, and an investment for the future on the other. Both cars could be either, but clearly each is more suited to one or other goal!

Here's a simple question - given that I don't know what the circumstances were, is high mileage such a bad thing compared to low mileage? If a car's only done 1000 miles in some years, the total looks great on paper, but is it likely to be in reality? I'm sure the answer's 'it depends...', but on balance, is there an answer to that one?

ps Another thing I've noticed is that while there aren't a lot of 240s on the market at the moment, they don't seem to disappear from the ads very quickly. Maybe it's the time of year.

[Chris152]

pps I'm now on 24 posts (including this one) - shall I join in the word association thread so I can get up to 30 and pm links to the cars I'm looking at to members who are being so helpful?! (Request for boost submitted and pending...) What a bizarre thread!

[loki_the_glt]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Yes, the speedo issue is on the more expensive car, LS - along with the heated rear window and intermittent wipe. And apparently the clutch judders some on that one, too, and the cam belt will need doing on it as well.
The difference between the two (apart from what I've already detailed above) is about half the cost on the cheaper one, more rust colouration (from what I can tell in pics of the more expensive one), an extra 100 000 miles on its clock and 10 owners rather than two.
TBH, I think I'm caught between seeing it as a project to learn from, on one hand, and an investment for the future on the other. Both cars could be either, but clearly each is more suited to one or other goal!

Here's a simple question - given that I don't know what the circumstances were, is high mileage such a bad thing compared to low mileage? If a car's only done 1000 miles in some years, the total looks great on paper, but is it likely to be in reality? I'm sure the answer's 'it depends...', but on balance, is there an answer to that one?

ps Another thing I've noticed is that while there aren't a lot of 240s on the market at the moment, they don't seem to disappear from the ads very quickly. Maybe it's the time of year.

Mileage per annum for many of these cars will now probably be fairly low - more important is the TYPE of running it's had in recent years. My GLT did about 2000 miles a year but it was almost all fast road running (M6 to Lancashire and back for a 120 mile round trip or A49 to Cosford) rather than 2-3 miles on a shopping trip, so the fluids got nice and warm/hot.

The clutch is easy enough to do, as has been said elsewhere; if you go for a B2x0 engine I've got the crankshaft locking tool that I lend out (search my signature and "crankshaft locking tool" for details), while the intermittent wipe is probably a simple electrical gremlin.

Personally I'd go for the one with the better metalwork as mechanical issues tend to be cheaper to remedy, but I've got a decent bodyshop just around the corner.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Yes, the speedo issue is on the more expensive car, LS - along with the heated rear window and intermittent wipe. And apparently the clutch judders some on that one, too, and the cam belt will need doing on it as well.
The difference between the two (apart from what I've already detailed above) is about half the cost on the cheaper one, more rust colouration (from what I can tell in pics of the more expensive one), an extra 100 000 miles on its clock and 10 owners rather than two.
TBH, I think I'm caught between seeing it as a project to learn from, on one hand, and an investment for the future on the other. Both cars could be either, but clearly each is more suited to one or other goal!

Here's a simple question - given that I don't know what the circumstances were, is high mileage such a bad thing compared to low mileage? If a car's only done 1000 miles in some years, the total looks great on paper, but is it likely to be in reality? I'm sure the answer's 'it depends...', but on balance, is there an answer to that one?

ps Another thing I've noticed is that while there aren't a lot of 240s on the market at the moment, they don't seem to disappear from the ads very quickly. Maybe it's the time of year.

First of all, i'd strongly suggest renewing the timing belt and making sure you retension it after 600 miles regardless of which you buy. Likewise do your own oil and filter change as soon after buying it as possible.

Am i right in understanding the intermittent wipe and heated rear window don't appear to work on the car with the speedo problem?

First question is, why do you think the HRW isn't working? Is it because the switch doesn't light up when pressed? Have you physically tested the operation of the HRW? Easy to do, start the car, switch the HRW on, wait a fwe minutes then "huff" on the outside of the glass. If it clears relatively quickly around the elements first, rapidly spreading then it's working.
If not, first of all grab your multimeter and check for a +12V feed on both connectors to the rear screen. You should only get +12V on one of them - if you get it on both, the earth connection is suspect.
If you don't get +12V at all, check the fuse and also the switch.

With the intermittent wipe, if the normal wiper speeds work correctly, the fuse is ok so that points to either the switch or the relay, out of the two it's more likely to be the relay, available on fleabay quite cheaply. It could also be the relay has simply come loose in the socket and pushing it back in will restore intermittent operation.

As a general thing, most 240s will have the old "Continental" style fuses and fuseboxes. Originally the fuses had a ceramic body but this was quickly replaced with plastic, the fusible link being wrapped from one end to the other and retained by the end caps of the link.
When these fuseboxes and fuses were in common use, any autoelectrician worth his salt carried a 1/4" drill bit and a piece of emery tape in his toolbox. Remove the fuse, take the drill bit and turn it by hand in the fusebox contacts, use the emery to clean the ends of the fuse then refit the fuse. Most of the time this would fix the fault.

Clutch judder can be caused by many things, the common cause is contamination by oil which generally comes from the rear crank oil seal, meaning a flywheel off job to renew said seal.
However it could equally be caused by a leaky rocker cover gasket but worn engine and/or gearbox mounts can also create clutch judder.
Normal wear and tear can cause it too, especially if the previous owner has a habit of "riding the clutch" which causes premature wear to many parts of the clutch mechanism.

Mileage on a car is always a contentious subject. I've known a 4 year old, one owner car with 17k miles on it to need a new engine. The problem was it was only used once a week, started cold, driven a few hundred yards to the Post Office by it's OAP owners, stopped while they went to get their pensions then restarted, cold again so both full choke starts, driven 3 miles (4 at a push) to the local town still on choke.
There it was switched off while they went shopping in the supermarket then went and had lunch in a cafe.
By the time they returned to the car, the engine was stone cold again so yet another cold, full-choke start. If it was lucky, the choke might just about be off by the time the 3-4 mile journey home had finished.

That was a carburettor car with manual choke. A fuel injected car would fare considerably better, even if used for the same sort of journeys as it will only enrich the mixture as required.

Going back briefly to the speedo problem, the mileage is probably higher than would first appear as the mileage is unlikely to be recorded if the speedo isn't working.
That said, some low mileage cars are just that, not used often and when they are, a long enough journey to burn off the contaiminants in the oil that would otherwise cause premature engine wear, driven gently until they are up to operating temperature then given a long and fast enough run to loosen everything up as it should be.

It's one of those questions that is hard to give an "umbrella" answer to, individual assessment of each car is the best way including a long test drive, noting how long it takes to get to operating temperature (gauge about halfway), how it performs during warm up and when hot, any undue rattles, knocks, smoke etc, particularly on the over-run are all warning signs of impending doom. The exact circumstances of any and each of these will point to different things, some serious, others not so. All need investigating though.

With the higher mileage car, it suggests it has had more regular use which tends to be better in general. That said, if proper maintenance hasn't been carried out, high mileage can be just as bad as the example of low mileage i cited above.

Also don't take the sellers word for it that it had an oil/filter change "recently", or any other service tasks for that matter.
When i bought my current 760, i was assured it had recently had a "full service". When i asked how recently, about 4 months ago was the answer.

Try 4 years!

Even then it was only an oil change, the filter had simply been wiped clean and was blocked when i removed it - weighed about 4-500g as well, a new one was only about 150g at a push, can't remember the exact figures now but you get the idea!

I found the receipt for the so-called service which turned out to be an oil and filter change (they were half right i suppose! ) which had in fact been 4 years before the date i was told by the seller.

When i came to change the plugs, i found they had been in about 100k miles and working the mileage back, that worked out to be about 10-12 years!

This time of year isn't great for selling cars, people are skint after Xmas, the bills are coming in about now and so on. As a result, values suffer so anyone selling to get the best price possible will wait until spring/summer when people are more optimistic because of the better weather, the bills will be smaller (less heat and light used due to it being warmer and longer days) and more likely to pay more for the right car.

Makes it a great time to buy the right car if the right car is available on the market.

Keep posting, you'll soon be up to the magic 30 posts!

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

The clutch is easy enough to do, as has been said elsewhere; if you go for a B2x0 engine I've got the crankshaft locking tool that I lend out (search my signature and "crankshaft locking tool" for details), while the intermittent wipe is probably a simple electrical gremlin.

We haven't got as far as considering a locking tool and I didn't know you need one, and thank you!

LS - Is the workshop manual no longer made by Haynes? I see the repair manual but not the workshop manual, but can get it second hand. And does anyone know what this one is like?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Volvo-240-7...0287845&sr=8-1
Definitely need to get hold of something asap.

[Chris152]

LS - just read your last post! I have to head out for a while but will read more carefully and respond when I get back. Thanks, some really helpful stuff there. And this constitutes one more post...