Safety recall for fire risk

[Clan]

Originally Posted by rafikield

Hi,

I was contacted by local Volvo service representative here in Serbia, regarding recall for inlet manifold issue on my MY16 XC60 D4.
He told me there is recall for my vehicle, consisting from some pipe/tubes replacement and SW update. Goal is to prevent exhaust fumes going back into inlet manifold through inlet valves. But, there is a catch: if inlet valves are already dirty with soot, then there is a high possibility that after recall work, problem with develop even faster, and that I may need expensive engine rebuild. Volvo will NOT cover expenses related to that rebuild. And of course, there is no way to determine amount of soot contamination before recall work.
Basically, I'm facing two options:
1. Not to take recall, facing possible meltdown of inlet manifold
2. Take recall, and then get broken engine that need quite repair

I was wondering, if anyone is aware of any way to check inlet valves, how much dirty with soot are they, and to check if I already may have a issue with exhaust fumes going back into inlet manifold?
If I do pressure check, what values are considered OK? My car are exactly 5 years old, and are just shy of 60000 miles.

BR

The latest engine software contains a routine to test the inlet valve leakage , it should all be part of the recall , they are not handling things properly , don't ignore a recall !

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by rafikield

Hi,

I was contacted by local Volvo service representative here in Serbia, regarding recall for inlet manifold issue on my MY16 XC60 D4.
He told me there is recall for my vehicle, consisting from some pipe/tubes replacement and SW update. Goal is to prevent exhaust fumes going back into inlet manifold through inlet valves. But, there is a catch: if inlet valves are already dirty with soot, then there is a high possibility that after recall work, problem with develop even faster, and that I may need expensive engine rebuild. Volvo will NOT cover expenses related to that rebuild. And of course, there is no way to determine amount of soot contamination before recall work.
Basically, I'm facing two options:
1. Not to take recall, facing possible meltdown of inlet manifold
2. Take recall, and then get broken engine that need quite repair

I was wondering, if anyone is aware of any way to check inlet valves, how much dirty with soot are they, and to check if I already may have a issue with exhaust fumes going back into inlet manifold?
If I do pressure check, what values are considered OK? My car are exactly 5 years old, and are just shy of 60000 miles.

BR

If it's discovered that a replacement intake manifold is needed then the soot build-up on the intake valves can be examined. Additionally, a compression test is performed to assess whether the intake valves are sealing correctly... this is what happened to mine (because the swirl valve was jammed with soot). But usually the recall merely checks the manifold for deformation, loads a software update and cleans the EMAP and TMAP sensors.

You already have an Exhaust Gas Recycling (EGR) system on your car feeding exhaust fumes into the intake manifold, that's how the soot build-up problems happen!

[rafikield]

Thanks Clan, Zebster for quick response.
It was never my intention to skip this recall, but I'm more than little worried now, after Volvo in advance denied any help or contribution for potential issues arising after recall work.
A month ago I cleaned TMAP sensor myself. It was a dirty, but not too much, even less than I expected. At the same time I took a quick look at inlet manifold, and, to my untrained eye, it looked OK, without any visible deformation.
From your experience, would you, guys, advise to do compression tests before going to recall? If there are already some issues with compression, at least I'll be aware of them in advance, so I would not relate them to recall.
BR

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by rafikield

Thanks Clan, Zebster for quick response.
It was never my intention to skip this recall, but I'm more than little worried now, after Volvo in advance denied any help or contribution for potential issues arising after recall work.
A month ago I cleaned TMAP sensor myself. It was a dirty, but not too much, even less than I expected. At the same time I took a quick look at inlet manifold, and, to my untrained eye, it looked OK, without any visible deformation.
From your experience, would you, guys, advise to do compression tests before going to recall? If there are already some issues with compression, at least I'll be aware of them in advance, so I would not relate them to recall.
BR

I don't understand how having the recall software upgrade could possibly cause an intake valve problem to become worse, so cannot give you an informative reply. Your intake valves WILL be covered by soot due to the EGR flow.

For information, the compression test is performed by monitoring the battery current during cranking. I got a print out of this, it merely compares the current spike amplitudes between cylinders and does not give pressure figures.

[rafikield]

OK, now I understand.
New engine SW has built-in cylinder leakage test. If engine is already leaking, (even if that leakage is not detected yet), some time after recall work (and SW update) engine (ECM) will detect leakage and report it. It may not have to be immediately after recall, but some time after - depending on the amount of soot on intake valves at the moment of recall and amount of soot buildup after recall.
So, if engine is dirty enough, you'll get leakage reported immediately after recall. If it's not, then you'll have to wait a bit more time. If solution done by recall is 100% effective, there will be no new soot build-up, so chances are that leakage will not happen at all, right?
Am I missing something here?
BR

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by rafikield

OK, now I understand.
New engine SW has built-in cylinder leakage test. If engine is already leaking, (even if that leakage is not detected yet), some time after recall work (and SW update) engine (ECM) will detect leakage and report it. It may not have to be immediately after recall, but some time after - depending on the amount of soot on intake valves at the moment of recall and amount of soot buildup after recall.
So, if engine is dirty enough, you'll get leakage reported immediately after recall. If it's not, then you'll have to wait a bit more time. If solution done by recall is 100% effective, there will be no new soot build-up, so chances are that leakage will not happen at all, right?
Am I missing something here?
BR

Unfortunately I don't agree... soot build-up on the intake valve stems could still happen after the recall and software update, as the EGR flow will still be happening. And excessive soot build-up may prevent the intake valves from fully closing and hence the 'spit-back' condition where combustion products may be explosively released into the plastic intake manifold and can - in extreme cases - cause the manifold to deform and allegedly even catch fire.

We are talking about a SAFETY recall and - as it was explained to me by my local dealer - the purpose of the associated software update was to monitor cylinder performance and shut down any defective cylinder if certain conditions are detected that point toward intake valve leakage. The engine warning light will also come on and an appropriate diagnostic trouble code will be stored. This will then minimise the possibility of an engine fire.

Software updates to minimise the build-up of soot in the EGR route and intake system will be applied during corrective work associated with EGR cooler and valve replacement. This is a separate action NOT related to the safety recall.

[rafikield]

Hi,
I'll have to talk to Volvo about this. I'm second owner of this car, but 99.99% sure that no works were ever done related to the EGR.
As I understand, when EGR cooler is blocked, Volvo replaces cooler with the new one and also changes coolant pipes/tubes around it. Does those changes have any effect on amount of soot that is passing into inlet manifold?
BR

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by rafikield

Hi,
I'll have to talk to Volvo about this. I'm second owner of this car, but 99.99% sure that no works were ever done related to the EGR.
As I understand, when EGR cooler is blocked, Volvo replaces cooler with the new one and also changes coolant pipes/tubes around it. Does those changes have any effect on amount of soot that is passing into inlet manifold?
BR

Yes, the replacement EGR cooler is upgraded and has a revised connection to the vehicle cooling system... It provides less cooling to limit the formation of condensation, which then mixed with soot and became a gummy blockage. However the upgrade isn't a good solution, as my upgraded cooler also became blocked and required replacement (I'm on my third cooler) and my EGR valve also stuck open and needed replacement due to soot after the original cooler was replaced.

The above changes were meant to prevent soot building up in the cooler so, logically, more soot must enter the intake manifold! However there have also been software updates which alter the EGR flow and so 'should' help to avoid future problems. At least that the claim...

You can tell if your EGR cooler has been replaced from the radiator top hose.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by Zebster

Yes, the replacement EGR cooler is upgraded and has a revised connection to the vehicle cooling system... It provides less cooling to limit the formation of condensation, which then mixed with soot and became a gummy blockage. However the upgrade isn't a good solution, as my upgraded cooler also became blocked and required replacement (I'm on my third cooler) and my EGR valve also stuck open and needed replacement due to soot after the original cooler was replaced.

The above changes were meant to prevent soot building up in the cooler so, logically, more soot must enter the intake manifold! However there have also been software updates which alter the EGR flow and so 'should' help to avoid future problems. At least that the claim...

You can tell if your EGR cooler has been replaced from the radiator top hose.

What Model Year do these issues stop at, or have they stopped ?

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

What Model Year do these issues stop at, or have they stopped ?

I would suggest that the AdBlue-equipped versions of the VEA are far less likely to suffer these problems.