D5 timing belt procedure required?

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by Symes

No need for a "guinea pig" Clan; I did mine a few thousand miles ago without removing the crank pulley, and no I wasn't confused... it really was a D5 (an EIII 163).

As I've stated before, the OLD belt wouldn't slide out (as does the petrol) so I used a pair of aviation tin snips to cut the belt, allowing removal from the 'front' of the engine (i.e. removal in the same plane as it normally runs).

The NEW belt is flexible enough, and has a slippery silicon coating to allow it to slide past the oil pressure relief valve allowing fitment in a similar motion to the petrol.

The only thing that you need to watch is that the belt and pulley teeth are disengaged when you pull the cut end of the belt out so that the crank pulley doesn't move.

It saves theextra step of removal of the crank pulley, leaving more time to enjoy a cuppa!

Well well well, how pleased am i that you have posted this confirmation that i am not going to look a complete when i do my D5 timing belt without removing the crank pulley.

Any comments on the above Clan ? ( By the way, generally i take every word that you say Clan, as gospel so dont be offended by my disagreement)

Darryl

[Clan]

well I have been doing these petrol and diesel cambelts on a professional basic for 10 years now and long ago i gave up trying to wangle the new belt off and on the D5 . The new belt is actualy stiffer then the old one coming off , they have kevlar reinforcment . And certainly no sign of any silicon , although spraying them might help them slip in more easily , but it is the bending which is amost impossible due to their extra width .
Symes above must have very strong hands and fingers
try it yourself see what you think ...

[outnumbered]

or you could have a day out at Andover

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

or you could have a day out at Andover

What's at Andover Mike? I know Hutton bros were doing at good deal on supply/fit timing belts but not certain where they are exactly. Malton area rings a bell.

Tarquin

[outnumbered]

Originally Posted by S60D5-185

What's at Andover Mike? I know Hutton bros were doing at good deal on supply/fit timing belts but not certain where they are exactly. Malton area rings a bell.

Tarquin

promise me you will keep up.
SYMES is at Andover the chap that has done the belt without taking of the pulley. Hutton Bros are just outside york at Slingsby. they give you a car as well for the day. handy for Castle Howard
mike

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

promise me you will keep up.SYMES is at Andover the chap that has done the belt without taking of the pulley. Hutton Bros are just outside york at Slingsby. they give you a car as well for the day. handy for Castle Howard
mike

DOH!

[Symes]

Darryl - I agree wholeheartedly with you regards Clan's advice and experience (top notch) ; but on this occasion I can only relay my own findings.

Just to clarify, I used a genuine belt when I replaced my timing belt - and I'll be totally honest that I didn't expect it to be that easy and thought I'd have to revert to removing the pulley...

I tried to squeeze the old belt out as per the 'normal' petrol technique and failed completely. That's when I decided to cut the old belt off and try to get the new on without removing the pulley.

Maybe it's because of the angles - the old belt catches on the oil pressure relief valve housing when trying to get it out, but can slide past when pushing in the new..?

All I can say is to give it a go; make sure you mark the crank and cam pulleys and if you need to remove the pulley afterall, you should still be able to get everything aligned properly if you have to move the pulley to remove it.

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by Symes

Darryl - I agree wholeheartedly with you regards Clan's advice and experience (top notch) ; but on this occasion I can only relay my own findings.

Just to clarify, I used a genuine belt when I replaced my timing belt - and I'll be totally honest that I didn't expect it to be that easy and thought I'd have to revert to removing the pulley...

I tried to squeeze the old belt out as per the 'normal' petrol technique and failed completely. That's when I decided to cut the old belt off and try to get the new on without removing the pulley.

Maybe it's because of the angles - the old belt catches on the oil pressure relief valve housing when trying to get it out, but can slide past when pushing in the new..?

All I can say is to give it a go; make sure you mark the crank and cam pulleys and if you need to remove the pulley afterall, you should still be able to get everything aligned properly if you have to move the pulley to remove it.

Thanks Symes,
i feel that i have more than enough knowledge/experience/tools to change the belt either way but am delighted that you have confirmed that this can be done leaving the pulley in place.

Couple of questions please.

I take it that you did not have to resort to brute force or chiseling lugs of castings as has previously been mentioned. ( i would bet my life on it that you didnt)

Did the new belt slide into place reasonably trouble free?

I already have the belt ( Genuine Volvo Kit ) and will replace all rollers tensioner and same with auxiliary belt.

Only have 72k on clock now so no great urgency but will follow your instructions to the letter.

Once again a big thankyou



Darryl

[keithC70]

Point 1.

Well I've done a few of these now and every time I've taken off the crank pulley.

Having read this thread and others, I was waiting to have a go at another to see if I could do it without taking off the pulley - so this week I bought an XC90 D5 and got the new bits, cut through the old belt and - couldn't get it out!!! Took the pulley off! I don't think it's possible - I tried for over an hour before I gave up.

Point 2.

A Newton is a force of 1 kilogram times g 9.81 ( Force = Mass x Acceleration)

So a torque of 300 nm is 300n at the end of a 1m bar

To change it to mass rather than force, you divide by g
which is 300/9.81 kgm = 30.58 kgm

so 300 nm is equivalent to 30.58 kg at the end of a 1m bar.

So if your bar is 1m long you need to press on the end of it 30.58 kg or 67 lbs. This is easy to do and shouldn't scare people from having a go.

Point 3

Interestingly, if you ask at a Volvo dealer in the parts dept. how many D5 cambelts they order for their workshop in a week, and then when they've replied ask them how many crank nuts and crank bolts they order, you'll see that they're not changed by the dealer! So I never change them either.

Point 4

Stretch bolts? What on earth do they mean? Every bolt stretches when it's under stress, and the more the stress, the more it stretches.

Think about the basic principle of Hook's law. As you apply tension, it stretches in a linear fashion and at any point in the elastic range if you de-load it returns to it's original length.

If it's gone past the end of the elastic range, it's passed the yield point and it's failed! Yet these bolts are called tty - torque to yield! I can't believe that these bolts are torqued past their failure point.

So if there is a recommendation to replace bolts, I think it's for another reason. Could it be that on assembly lines it's easier for automated tightening to continue until the force required is reducing? So they're not sure exactly what torque has been applied?

Anyone know the real reason?

[Clan]

Originally Posted by keithC70

Point 1.

Well I've done a few of these now and every time I've taken off the crank pulley.

Having read this thread and others, I was waiting to have a go at another to see if I could do it without taking off the pulley - so this week I bought an XC90 D5 and got the new bits, cut through the old belt and - couldn't get it out!!! Took the pulley off! I don't think it's possible - I tried for over an hour before I gave up.

Point 2.

A Newton is a force of 1 kilogram times g 9.81 ( Force = Mass x Acceleration)

So a torque of 300 nm is 300n at the end of a 1m bar

To change it to mass rather than force, you divide by g
which is 300/9.81 kgm = 30.58 kgm

so 300 nm is equivalent to 30.58 kg at the end of a 1m bar.

So if your bar is 1m long you need to press on the end of it 30.58 kg or 67 lbs. This is easy to do and shouldn't scare people from having a go.

Point 3

Interestingly, if you ask at a Volvo dealer in the parts dept. how many D5 cambelts they order for their workshop in a week, and then when they've replied ask them how many crank nuts and crank bolts they order, you'll see that they're not changed by the dealer! So I never change them either.

Point 4

Stretch bolts? What on earth do they mean? Every bolt stretches when it's under stress, and the more the stress, the more it stretches.

Think about the basic principle of Hook's law. As you apply tension, it stretches in a linear fashion and at any point in the elastic range if you de-load it returns to it's original length.

If it's gone past the end of the elastic range, it's passed the yield point and it's failed! Yet these bolts are called tty - torque to yield! I can't believe that these bolts are torqued past their failure point.

So if there is a recommendation to replace bolts, I think it's for another reason. Could it be that on assembly lines it's easier for automated tightening to continue until the force required is reducing? So they're not sure exactly what torque has been applied?

Anyone know the real reason?

Point 1,
I am glad you couldnt either , i have been doing these on a regular basis for 10 years now and still have to get the pulley off .

Point 2 ,
30 kg on a 1 metre lever may not seem a lot to tighten the centre crank pulley nut, but the torque wrench i use is about 1/2 metre long so a force of 60 kg is about the weight of me swinging on the end of a 20" lever . a considerable force even on a professional lift . Moreso if you happen to be outside with the car on small ramps .

Point 3,
The crank pulley bolts are or should be changed by the dealer , otherwise he is not conforming to volvo service methods , if the crank pulley comes off and wrecks the engine he is liable for the £6000 + cost as the invoice will show no Nut and Bolts ! There are good people and bad people and practices in dealers , you cant imply that all dealers dont change the bolts it simply is untrue . I am sorry you choose to go against the manufacturers advice , i hope it wont sting you in the tail one day ( it probably wont )

Point 4 ,
"Use once only stretch bolts" Have been around now since the 850 was launched in 1992 in most suspension and critical areas , its well known now in (any) manufacturers dealers how to deal with them . Of course any bolt stretches but only through a very small range , these "stretch bolts" stretch more , you can experiment if you like , put a used one in a threaded hole and try tightening it , it will go around and around stretching with little clamping force the second time, almost as if it is made from plastic . You simply cannot torque it with the prescribed method and get it tight enough .Its design is that the initial stretch goes well into the extended elasic range of these special bolts , leaving a strong spring clamp force in the joint to deal with shock loads and expension/contraction whilst maintaining a sound clamping force for the life of the car and beyond.