General Volvos and chip fat

[tfb]

I agree with DLM48, before any modifications my car would start and run on a 50/50 mix with the only noticeable effect being a slight chip shop smell and more cash in my wallet at the end of the week!.

As for short journeys, it depends how short they are going to be. I have read of problems caused by the engine being turned off when before it is fully warm. The gist of the problem is that fuel condenses on the coolish cylinder walls and and then runs down into the sump. When the veg oil mixes with the engine oil it starts to solidify the engine oil.

If you are going to try some I would recommend that you look at increasing the frequency of changing you oil. I change mine every month, which is about 2400-4000 miles.

Have a look at http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=186108 for a horror story of what SVO/WVO can do to an engine. However that chap got about 50,000 miles out of his engine before any problems occurred. Now 50,000 miles at 40mpg is 1250 gallons or 5700 liters or circa £6000 on diesel. On 100% SVO that would be about £3000. So a saving of £3000 or even more if using waste oil.

SVO/WVO or even LPG really only makes sense if you are doing a lot of miles. I could replace my 940TD every year and still be saving money.

Anti-veg people throw statements around like " a new injector pump will cost you £1500" or " a replacement engine will be $3000". Yes, sure if you buy it new from a dealer but who on earth spends £1500 on a car worth £300-£1000? An IP from a scrappy will be £50-£100, an engine £150 or a complete running taxed/MOT'd car can be had for £300.

Pro-veg people will say "yes, just throw anything thing and these VE pumps will handle it". I prefer a more middle line. If you are going to experiment then remember it is an experiment and it may fail or succeed.

If I get time to draw up my sketches I'll post my plans for my twin tank system later on.

Regards
TFB

[tfb]

Oh, one other thing. If you are planning to mix Diesel and veg I would recommend you do it either in a jerry can or get the car running with and then add the two and take it for a decent run to allow it to mix.

Shaking a full 20lt jerry can or plastic cube is not easy on the arms!

I have had the engine running (cold) and tipped cold SVO into the tank and you can hear the revs drops and the engine struggle a bit. It seems that the SVO goes straight to the bottom of the tank (or whereever the pickup is). By taking it for a run the action of movement and the excess fuel being returned to the tank mixes it up all nicely.

Regards
TFB

[David Humphrey]

Thanks for all your help.I am in Norfolk and cover about 15000 miles a year so financially it would be worthwhile and it seems to be lawful now.I had wondered whether it might be possible to put a mains electric heater into the fuel tank in the same way that I beleive people use sump heaters in very cold climates.So you start off in the morning with a warm tank of fuel and in addition replace the existing fuel filter with a heated one such as the fiat one. It would be possible to insulate the tank and lines presumably. Not sure how safe it would bethough.
The only other method is two tanks and because there is so much room around the engine I too have wondered about a tank under the bonnet but you would then need the changeover valves and remember to do it etc etc.
I saw svo at 58p/l in the shops today which does seem very appealing although that will probably increase if we all end up doing it.
David

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by David Humphrey

Thanks for all your help.I am in Norfolk and cover about 15000 miles a year so financially it would be worthwhile and it seems to be lawful now.I had wondered whether it might be possible to put a mains electric heater into the fuel tank in the same way that I beleive people use sump heaters in very cold climates.So you start off in the morning with a warm tank of fuel and in addition replace the existing fuel filter with a heated one such as the fiat one. It would be possible to insulate the tank and lines presumably. Not sure how safe it would bethough.
The only other method is two tanks and because there is so much room around the engine I too have wondered about a tank under the bonnet but you would then need the changeover valves and remember to do it etc etc.
I saw svo at 58p/l in the shops today which does seem very appealing although that will probably increase if we all end up doing it.
David

TOTALLY no point in heating the SVO unless you can heat the injectors and the Injection Pump too - talking about cold start conditions of course as all you pre heating will get undone the second the SVO hits the cold IP. Put in an engine pre heater if 80% of your cold starts will be at home and you can get power to the car. I am 'thinking' about moving the battery (dont know where to YET!!! ) and using that space for an alloy PD tank - with the battery gone there is lots of room - might even be possible with a tank above the battery. Change over valves and the bits to operate them at cold start time are easily sourced - switching back over to PD on the way home is the only BIG issue a smaller one might be mixing a small amount of SVO into your PD tank if you want to keep the pipe runs simple. Who was selling SVO at 58ppl?

[tfb]

Tesco's
Own brand corn oil 1lt bottles @ 54p each
Pura Rapeseed oil 1lt bottles @ 56p each (cleared the shelves at Huntingdon this morning!)


Costco
KTC 20ltr cubes and cans @ £13.89

Asda
KTC 15ltr cubes @ £8.40 (but i've heard they've gone up to about £10)

The prices of the 15 and 20lt cubes do seem to vary. I can get them for a far better price in London than I can in Cambridgeshire, but the 1lt bottles are the same price.

David
I'm not far from the Cambridgeshire/Norfolk border, so if you fancy popping across for a look and and a chat just send me a PM.

DLM
Same invite goes to you (but appreciate it's a bit further!). And I agree about the cold start issue. That's why I'm going to twin tank it.

Regards
TFB

[tfb]

OK, finally got 30 mins to knock up some schematics (kids still hyper from xmas).

System explanation

The 6 port valve is switched by having the polarity of the voltage applied to it reversed.

With the purge/auto switch in the auto (open) position, the change over relay and the heater relay are energized. This sends power to the filter heater and provides power to the 6 port valve in one polarity and one of the LED's will light.
When the coolant temp reaches 70 degrees C the thermo switch will open and cause the two relays to de-energize. This will turn off the filter heater and change the polarity of the power to the 6 port valve nd light the other LED.
By closing the purge/auto switch, the thermo switch is bypassed and the system thinks the engine is cold and thus the 6 port valve changes over again. The filter heater will turn on again and this is an unwanted side effect. I'd need a bit more complicated wiring to keep it off.

I'll use industrial solid state relays for switching with, 12V LED's for indication and a simple toggle switch for the auto/purge switch. I should be able to sacrifice the little cubby hole next to the cigar lighter as a place to mount them all.

I haven't reviewed the drawings yet, so I may have made some glaring errors, just point them out kindly to me please. Oh, I haven't shown any fuses in the circuit, but rest assured there will be lots of them!

Regards

TFB

[David Humphrey]

The plans look very impressive to me but not sure I have the expertise to source and install all the pieces separately.I wondered what people thought of the attached kits ?
http://www.smartveg.com/
David

[tfb]

The kits looks quite good. Just remember you will need to add about £200 to £300 it you want the kit fitted for you. Had I not tried the single tank option first then I would have most likely chosen one of their kits myself.

Regards
TFB

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by David Humphrey

The plans look very impressive to me but not sure I have the expertise to source and install all the pieces separately.I wondered what people thought of the attached kits ?
http://www.smartveg.com/
David

The kit looks fine but i would want lots of feed back from satisfied customers in fact a list of customers that they have supplied these kits to so you can do your own investigations - ask for Volvo Owners Discount of course - as you will be posting your results here - WONT YOU!!!!!


Costing well that depends on your mindset i suppose rounding all figures PD to £1 and SVO to 50p and assuming 38MPG

The Elite 22 kit will cost £600

£600 of PD will take you 5,000 miles

£600 of SVO will take you 12,000 miles

so PD is 12 PPM SVO is 6 PPM

Assuming you buy the kit and spread the cost over the first 15,000 miles you will use 1800 litres of SVO ignore the PD cost should not be more than £20 i would suggest

Kit @ £600 + 1800 litres of SVO @ £900 = Total £1500 That equals 10 PPM for year one a saving of almost 17% or wallet wise your 1800 litres of PD would have cost £1800 so you have actually saved £300 even though you spent £600 on buying the kit. All following years you should be at the 6 PPM or thereabouts a rather serious saving and well a really green way to drive too.

COST CALCULATOR

http://www.dieselveg.com/vegmodel.xls

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by tfb

OK, finally got 30 mins to knock up some schematics (kids still hyper from xmas).

System explanation

The 6 port valve is switched by having the polarity of the voltage applied to it reversed.

With the purge/auto switch in the auto (open) position, the change over relay and the heater relay are energized. This sends power to the filter heater and provides power to the 6 port valve in one polarity and one of the LED's will light.
When the coolant temp reaches 70 degrees C the thermo switch will open and cause the two relays to de-energize. This will turn off the filter heater and change the polarity of the power to the 6 port valve nd light the other LED.
By closing the purge/auto switch, the thermo switch is bypassed and the system thinks the engine is cold and thus the 6 port valve changes over again. The filter heater will turn on again and this is an unwanted side effect. I'd need a bit more complicated wiring to keep it off.

I'll use industrial solid state relays for switching with, 12V LED's for indication and a simple toggle switch for the auto/purge switch. I should be able to sacrifice the little cubby hole next to the cigar lighter as a place to mount them all.

I haven't reviewed the drawings yet, so I may have made some glaring errors, just point them out kindly to me please. Oh, I haven't shown any fuses in the circuit, but rest assured there will be lots of them!

Regards

TFB

In the first diagram use the thermal switch to drive a two pole relay and you can use one pole for the existing thermal switched circuit and the other to switch the + 12V power after the filter heater relay or the return to the filter heater. The LEDs will still have a return so should work OK that way the purge switch wont power the filter heater IF the thermal switch is active. What is the box to the left of the thermal switch and the switch in the line above it the heater relay? if so it is open when it should be closed as the thermal switch is closed? OR you could move the purge switch line to between the two relays and isolate the heater relay with a diode so the purge switch wont activate it and only the thermal switch can.