Not easy being a Tram Driver

T5R92011 · Jan 4th, 2018, 23:54

I shouldn't laugh but.....

+ YouTube Video

canis · Jan 5th, 2018, 00:17

Oh God, that's awful. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I'm not convinced by the utility of buses which can't steer.

straightsix · Jan 5th, 2018, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by canis

Oh God, that's awful. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I'm not convinced by the utility of buses which can't steer.

Problem is they run on tracks ...

green van man · Jan 5th, 2018, 06:48

Does a tram have right of way ? I know a train does but they have lights and or barriers at crossings.
The way some of these were being driven junctions didnot seem to apply to them.

Rather academic for me as Edinburgh is the only place I visit that has them and I use the park and ride.

Paul.

straightsix · Jan 5th, 2018, 07:22

Common sense would say yes in all situations....

DaveNP · Jan 5th, 2018, 09:42

Checking the coordinates in one of the video clips it seems those trams are in Moscow, if you go looking for videos of bad driving on youtube most of them seem to be from Russia.
I've only dealt with trams infrequently when visiting Manchester and Croydon and I don't recall any problems there.

IainG · Jan 5th, 2018, 10:07

Hi
This happened in Sheffield
Although quite minor.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crunc...mash-1-4228089

Iain

canis · Jan 5th, 2018, 12:41

The problem I have with trams, is they are the worst of all worlds. Like a train, they can only run on rails. That means they can't go off route, even temporarilly. Roadworks on the route means no service. A fault on the line, no service. They can't overtake each other, they can't get around each other, and they can only travel at road speeds, and they still get stuck in traffic.

Before they were built, people would often say "I think they should bring back the trams" harkening back to the days of the old style trams, which you could pretty much hop on and off anywhere. So it seemed like a good idea.

Unfortunately, what we got was not trams, but trains which go on roads. You can't get on them, unless you stand at a platform, they're too high up. We might as well have just a railway. In fact, the Manchester trams were designed to use the same rolling stock as trains, so they could use the train lines between towns. Let's be honest, they're not really trams at all. They're just trains but not on railway lines.

Meanwhile, a bus can adjust it's route. If a car is in the way, it can go round. If there are roadworks, it's route can be altered. If there are too many, they can overtake each other. If the fares aren't what they'd expected, routes can be adjusted to ensure everybody can get everywhere. So many advantages! If a tram turns out to be less profitable than expected, moving the line isn't going to be cheap. Bus stops can be accomodated far more easily than tram stations, and more plentifully.

Finally, there's the confounded congestion they cause. To build the tram station in Oldham, all the cars must be diverted around three sides of an entire block. Those 50 yards of road are now a station. When driving towards it the other day with my wife, the following conversation occured:

"You can't go that way, it's for trams."
"I know, we have to go 'round. But the question is; Why?"
"Because it's a tram station."
"So? It's still got a road beside it. What's the problem? Are they worried I might pick up some passengers, or something?"

The service is, on the whole, actually quite good. It rarely breaks down, but when it does the entire service grinds to a halt. It's also not exactly cheap. It's certainly not cheap to install, and even decomissioning will be a huge undertaking should it ever be necessary. Plus the upheaval to traffic.

I really don't see any advantages that buses don't already have. Buses are great! The operation of them sucks, especially here in Oldham, but the idea is very sound.

wimorrison · Jan 5th, 2018, 12:45

In the countries these are taken from the trams do have right of way - and even if they didn’t it doesn’t make sense to drive a small car in front of a large tram- there will only ever be one outcome.

In the countries I have worked where trams are the norm they have been an absolute boon, easiest, quickest and generally cheapest way to get around.

straightsix · Jan 5th, 2018, 13:09

Ive used the tram system in Manchester a fair bit and its brilliant.
Wouldnt even consider using buses when im up there
Great city Manchester BTW i love it ,the city centre these days is fantastic very vibrant with some brilliant bars and restaurants

Love the way they have kept a lot of the great historic old mills around ancoats and are redeveloing them

Jan 5th, 2018, 09:42	#6
DaveNP Non VOC Member Last Online: Today 06:45 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Milton Keynes	Checking the coordinates in one of the video clips it seems those trams are in Moscow, if you go looking for videos of bad driving on youtube most of them seem to be from Russia. I've only dealt with trams infrequently when visiting Manchester and Croydon and I don't recall any problems there. __________________ David V70 2.5 10v Torslanda Manual 98 Sreg

Jan 5th, 2018, 12:45	#9
wimorrison Grumpy Old Sod Last Online: Dec 14th, 2021 15:39 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Hampshire, nee Scotland	In the countries these are taken from the trams do have right of way - and even if they didn’t it doesn’t make sense to drive a small car in front of a large tram- there will only ever be one outcome. In the countries I have worked where trams are the norm they have been an absolute boon, easiest, quickest and generally cheapest way to get around. __________________ Currently XC60 Previously XC60, V70, S40, ...

Jan 5th, 2018, 13:09	#10
straightsix I've Been Banned Last Online: Jan 6th, 2018 18:10 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: torquay	Ive used the tram system in Manchester a fair bit and its brilliant. Wouldnt even consider using buses when im up there Great city Manchester BTW i love it ,the city centre these days is fantastic very vibrant with some brilliant bars and restaurants Love the way they have kept a lot of the great historic old mills around ancoats and are redeveloing them Last edited by straightsix; Jan 5th, 2018 at 13:12.

Jan 5th, 2018, 00:17	#2
canis Non Fragile Last Online: Oct 13th, 2023 05:46 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Chadderton, Oldham	Oh God, that's awful. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I'm not convinced by the utility of buses which can't steer.

Jan 5th, 2018, 06:48	#4
green van man Premier Member Last Online: Apr 11th, 2024 09:21 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ffos y Ffin	Does a tram have right of way ? I know a train does but they have lights and or barriers at crossings. The way some of these were being driven junctions didnot seem to apply to them. Rather academic for me as Edinburgh is the only place I visit that has them and I use the park and ride. Paul.

Jan 5th, 2018, 07:22	#5
straightsix I've Been Banned Last Online: Jan 6th, 2018 18:10 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: torquay	Common sense would say yes in all situations....

Jan 5th, 2018, 10:07	#7
IainG Premier Member Last Online: Today 06:09 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Plymouth	Hi This happened in Sheffield Although quite minor. https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crunc...mash-1-4228089 Iain

Jan 5th, 2018, 12:41	#8
canis Non Fragile Last Online: Oct 13th, 2023 05:46 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Chadderton, Oldham	The problem I have with trams, is they are the worst of all worlds. Like a train, they can only run on rails. That means they can't go off route, even temporarilly. Roadworks on the route means no service. A fault on the line, no service. They can't overtake each other, they can't get around each other, and they can only travel at road speeds, and they still get stuck in traffic. Before they were built, people would often say "I think they should bring back the trams" harkening back to the days of the old style trams, which you could pretty much hop on and off anywhere. So it seemed like a good idea. Unfortunately, what we got was not trams, but trains which go on roads. You can't get on them, unless you stand at a platform, they're too high up. We might as well have just a railway. In fact, the Manchester trams were designed to use the same rolling stock as trains, so they could use the train lines between towns. Let's be honest, they're not really trams at all. They're just trains but not on railway lines. Meanwhile, a bus can adjust it's route. If a car is in the way, it can go round. If there are roadworks, it's route can be altered. If there are too many, they can overtake each other. If the fares aren't what they'd expected, routes can be adjusted to ensure everybody can get everywhere. So many advantages! If a tram turns out to be less profitable than expected, moving the line isn't going to be cheap. Bus stops can be accomodated far more easily than tram stations, and more plentifully. Finally, there's the confounded congestion they cause. To build the tram station in Oldham, all the cars must be diverted around three sides of an entire block. Those 50 yards of road are now a station. When driving towards it the other day with my wife, the following conversation occured: "You can't go that way, it's for trams." "I know, we have to go 'round. But the question is; Why?" "Because it's a tram station." "So? It's still got a road beside it. What's the problem? Are they worried I might pick up some passengers, or something?" The service is, on the whole, actually quite good. It rarely breaks down, but when it does the entire service grinds to a halt. It's also not exactly cheap. It's certainly not cheap to install, and even decomissioning will be a huge undertaking should it ever be necessary. Plus the upheaval to traffic. I really don't see any advantages that buses don't already have. Buses are great! The operation of them sucks, especially here in Oldham, but the idea is very sound.

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