240 General: E10 petrol for 30 yr old 240?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by jasons

Interesting, it will need approx 30% more fuel via the injectors to get the correct afr, I will use a wideband AFR to get it right, but given E85 produces more power than regular and on the assumption that slightly less throttle will be needed to maintain the same speed I reckoned on 25% more fuel consumption, but interested t know how you get to 35%.

That said, by the time the boost is wound up a little to see it the right side f 200hp I think it could be 35-40% more fuel as it will be fun using the torque lol

The chap who mentioned ignition timing, be great if he/she could input why they think this, given the burn characteristics, oxygen levels and octane levels of E85 I didn't see stock timing as being an issue, but all inputs welcome

Alan has beaten me to it with the energy value of the E85 Vs "normal" petrol. Hence needing about 35% more of the stuff to get to the same power baseline.

Because the E85 has a much higher knock resistance, it carries a higher octane rating (same thing really, octane rating is a numerical value applied to knock resistance) so the timing can be adavanced to give the extra volume of fuel more time to burn efficiently and hence create more power. Like Dai mentioned, a rolling road with some kind of developmental ECU would be the best option to make the most of it. Don't forget that car manufacturers always produce compromises, the quickest/fastest/most economical/smoothest possible compromise (possibly more factors included in the compromise) that will run on the majority of available fuels for the intended market.

You could potentially get round having the piggy-back injectors to raise the amount of fuel by fitting a higher/adjustable rate FPR and higher flow injectors, whether the ECU would still try to make the mixture leaner due to closed-loop feedback from the Lambda sensor is another matter though, it might be adjustable but i wouldn't count on it.

I don't know enough about E85 fuel and the mods needed for it to offer this as anything other than conjecture so perhaps use it as a basis for further investigation to see if the idea would work in theory and/or practically.

[jasons]

I like the idea of extending the injector opening time, its easily adjustable, for instance if a trip to the UK requires filling up with E10 or E5 a simple adjustment on the module will prevent over fuelling.

Certain white papers also indicated E85 responds well (test car was saab 2.3 turbo) with longer duration of injectors rather than raising FPR.

Yes, values seem to swing between 25-32% depending on what they compare it to, 25% compared to the USA 2star equiv lol.

It will be a test case for sure, one thing I forgot to ask because I assumed the ECU wouldn't be smart enough is does the 940hpt go into lean burn cycles?

They say its a low friction engine, but again I'm assuming this is a different level to (for example) a Honda low friction motor which I'm more used to?

[Clan]

Originally Posted by gnnmartin

I have been advised that we should use 'super' petrol in our 31 year old Volvo 240 estate now that the ordinary lead free petrol is E10. However, the government web site https://check-vehicle-compatibility-...facturer/Volvo says we are ok to use E10. Does anyone have an opinion?

If we do need to use super, is it because the higher octane makes the ethanol better tolerated, or is it just because super is still E5? In other words, might we get problems when the super becomes E10 (assuming it does, eventually)?

Our engine has been a bit unreliable of late, so we have just splashed out on a tank full of 'super'. However, are we wasting money and failing to protect the planet?

all volvo petrol engines from 1976 are suitable for E10 except the S/V40 1998 to 2003 GDI ( 1.8i) engines

[Laird Scooby]

The Honda low friction units are a very different animal!

[classicswede]

Having followed a number of threads on E85 one common thing is that each fill up changes how the car runs as the % of Ethanol is not constant. 85% is the max, it could be 80% 75% etc. You need a flexi fuel sensor to really get the most unless you have a fuel supply that is at least close every time

[jasons]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Having followed a number of threads on E85 one common thing is that each fill up changes how the car runs as the % of Ethanol is not constant. 85% is the max, it could be 80% 75% etc. You need a flexi fuel sensor to really get the most unless you have a fuel supply that is at least close every time

thanks, all this is helpfull.

I am going to fit a wideband sensor and gauge to monitor, they key is not to have it too lean nor too rich but within a safe parameter, hopefully even with inconsistencies I can keep it within a safe afr, the other thing is I don't intend to spin it so working within a more tolerable rev band should keep things easier.

A flex fuel sensor setup would be sweet, but I'd like to keep this on a budget within sensible reason, and create a very cheap car to run, whilst it would be nice to have a state of the art setup I'm not sure I'd ever recover the investment costs and furthermore there's probably a whole host of better cars to start with as a base project.

The injector timing kit is £34, the wideband hopefully comes my way in exchange for a favour. Lets see where this takes us and cross the bridges as they appear...