1978 245 GLE injection starting problem

[Mark1Stu]

Very helpful info Laird Scooby.

Peter, it might help if I briefly summarise the solution to my similar problem (but not necessarily same solution!).

I realised the worse idling when I attempted to richen the fuel mixture on the fuel distributor was actually due to colder ambient temperature. Trying again on a subsequent day, I got the car to run sweet and smooth from cold start up by richening the mixture (clockwise) and dialling back (anti-clockwise) the idle - both were miles out. I still need to get the mixture checked with a CO metre but doesn’t seem over rich visually or via my nose! I also changed the fuel pump relay (in case there was a problem with the switch circuit for the thermo switch and cold start injector) as I had a new spare. I can’t recall before, but certainly after these steps, the car idles at 1100 rpm when cold then drops back to 900rpm when warm (where I’ve set it) - so the cold start system appears to work. As LS said above, you don’t know who may have previously tampered with the car. In my car’s case, someone had fitted an engine preheater. I’ve removed it and had been thinking it was to mask a fuel injection problem. Now I’m just wondering whether they dialled back the fuel mixture and increased the idle screw to save money!
The only issue I have now is, if the car is left 24hrs+ and restarted it will die on start up, but then run fine next turn of the key. I’m thinking it could be fuel pressure drop off due to leaky injectors…..which I haven’t taken out nor changed the seals (although I’ve been advised to change the seals…….however filling the void around all 4 main injectors with WD40 before cold start up hasn’t improved things nor seen the WD40 disappear….so suggests to me the seals aren’t leaking badly at the moment)

Currently I’m running a full tank of high octane E5 petrol with a good dose of injector cleaner added….so will review matters once most of it has washed through the system.

Good luck with your journey…you’ll be elated when you sort it I’m sure.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Mark1Stu

The only issue I have now is, if the car is left 24hrs+ and restarted it will die on start up, but then run fine next turn of the key. I’m thinking it could be fuel pressure drop off due to leaky injectors…..which I haven’t taken out nor changed the seals (although I’ve been advised to change the seals…….however filling the void around all 4 main injectors with WD40 before cold start up hasn’t improved things nor seen the WD40 disappear….so suggests to me the seals aren’t leaking badly at the moment)

Currently I’m running a full tank of high octane E5 petrol with a good dose of injector cleaner added….so will review matters once most of it has washed through the system.

Good luck with your journey…you’ll be elated when you sort it I’m sure.

Sadly spraying the WD40 round the injectors with the engine running isn't a definitive test of injector seals on a K-Jet. Because the vacuum of the engine will pull the seals inwards, it effectively tightens them and (except overrun) as idling is the highest normal vacuum, that's when they seal best. It's better (but still not ideal) to squirt round the injectors before a cold start, no guarantee that will help identify things but would give more of a result due to lack of vacuum in the manifold.

Next cold start, try this : First, turn the ignition on to key position 2 (warning lights only) then just "flick" the key into the start position 3 and release. Wait a second or two and you should hear the fuel pumps running while you wait. When they stop, turn to position 3 again and it should fire almost instantly and keep running if my idea/hunch is correct.

[Mark1Stu]

Many thanks Dave for your help and advice. I did squirt WD40 around the injectors before starting the car from stone cold - which made no difference tbh.

I’ll definitely try your suggestion to prime the fuel system before a proper start….and will definitely buy some new injector seals.

I previously thought the FI system should be left to others, but I’m getting braver through necessity.

Thanks again.

Stuart

[Mark1Stu]

Dave,

Just turned over the starter momentarily, heard the fuel pump run, then reset the key and started the car which on firing up settled to an idle….albeit a little low on the rpm initially which is probably not surprising (I didn’t have my foot on the accelerator). Interesting though, as soon as I touched the accelerator, the rpm dropped and ran lumpy for a second or two - which suggests to me it’s running lean - either mixture control or more likely injector seals leaking as you suggest (I’ve been all over the inlet side connections with WD40, engine running, looking for leaks without success). Pretty sure had I stamped on the accelerator it would’ve cut out. Once in warming up mode, the engine revved up cleanly and idled smoothly.

New seals to be ordered tomorrow!

Peter, I’m conscious this is your thread so hope this is the last from me - and that it’s been useful narrowing down your car’s issue.

Good luck!

Stuart

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Mark1Stu

Many thanks Dave for your help and advice. I did squirt WD40 around the injectors before starting the car from stone cold - which made no difference tbh.

I’ll definitely try your suggestion to prime the fuel system before a proper start….and will definitely buy some new injector seals.

I previously thought the FI system should be left to others, but I’m getting braver through necessity.

Thanks again.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Mark1Stu

Dave,

Just turned over the starter momentarily, heard the fuel pump run, then reset the key and started the car which on firing up settled to an idle….albeit a little low on the rpm initially which is probably not surprising (I didn’t have my foot on the accelerator). Interesting though, as soon as I touched the accelerator, the rpm dropped and ran lumpy for a second or two - which suggests to me it’s running lean - either mixture control or more likely injector seals leaking as you suggest (I’ve been all over the inlet side connections with WD40, engine running, looking for leaks without success). Pretty sure had I stamped on the accelerator it would’ve cut out. Once in warming up mode, the engine revved up cleanly and idled smoothly.

New seals to be ordered tomorrow!

Peter, I’m conscious this is your thread so hope this is the last from me - and that it’s been useful narrowing down your car’s issue.

Good luck!

Stuart

Based on those two posts Stuart, id also suggest the seals are the main cause.
Also just to be certain, once the engine has warmed up, does the temp guage sit vertically in the middle without moving , especially on the open road?

[Mark1Stu]

Actually Dave, it runs cooler than I’d expect (according to the gauge - about a third to near half way). The opposite of what it did when I first got it.

I gave the cooling a deep flush (additive) and also scraped out all the crud behind the thermostat, and back flushed the engine and heater matrix. Put a new water pump, hoses, radiator and thermostat in it. Doesn’t lose any water.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Mark1Stu

Actually Dave, it runs cooler than I’d expect (according to the gauge - about a third to near half way). The opposite of what it did when I first got it.

I gave the cooling a deep flush (additive) and also scraped out all the crud behind the thermostat, and back flushed the engine and heater matrix. Put a new water pump, hoses, radiator and thermostat in it. Doesn’t lose any water.

The gauge sounds as if it's reading low Stuart, it could be the 'stat is a low temperature one. The more important thing is that the needle doesn't move once it's hot until you switch off for a while.

Was it overheating or overcooling at first?

[Mark1Stu]

Agree Dave. I think I’ve ditched the box the new thermostat came in so I can’t check it’s specification (but it does open when the engine is warm). Fuel gauge seems accurate and the temp gauge stays rock solid when warm - whatever the circumstances idling/dual carriageway etc.

When I got the car, the temp would sky rocket after a few minutes. I would open the bonnet and squeezed the top hose and the old thermostat would open and the temp gauge would return to normal (half way between high/low). The amount of crud behind the thermostat was definitely the cause to my mind - preventing the old stat opening easily.

Car had been in a barn for 13 years (although I suspect started up during some of that time)….so I guess I only have myself to blame for saving it from the oval circuit!

[Mark1Stu]

Thought I’d update on my fuel injection cold starting problem (basically it would start but not idle for 15 secs or so, then run very rough at idle and eventually smooth out when fully warm).

Solution - changed the fuel pressure regulator. Not only did it idle from cold, it ran sweeter as well with no lumpiness remaining circa 1700-2000rpm.

Order of approach (trying not to spend too much £££ or mess with items likely to be OK or requiring skill to reset).

1. Cleaned the auxiliary air valve.

2. Swapped the fuel relay (as part of the switching circuit connects with fuel injection thermo switch and warm up regulator) as I had a spare.

3. Changed the 4 main injectors seals (I’d sprayed WD over the originals and there was no sign of increase in idling speed or fluid being ingested so wasn’t convinced they were the problem. They weren’t).

4. Checked the air/ fuel plate on the fuel distributor. It seemed fine.

5. Checked the hoses to and from the PCV while the fuel distributor rubber air tube was off. Found the small hose connection at the PCV had been glued. So replaced it. Idling problem persisted.

6 Managed to buy a complete and working secondhand FI system for a B200E.

7. Swapped the FI thermo sensor. No difference.

8. Swapped the warm up regulator. Success.

It’s not a given that it’ll always work out this way, but in my layman terms, if I suffer similar problems on another car I would.

1. Clean/check auxiliary air valve.
2. Spray WD40 on injector seals. If no ingestion of fluid/ rev rise, leave alone for now.
3. Swap over the warm up regulator.

Thanks for the advice on here and among the wider Volvo community. I was particularly lucky to be able to purchase a spare K jet set up - my logic being it was cheaper to buy a complete system and swap over parts systematically than book it into a fuel injection specialist. Plus I now have some additional spares.

I see on eBay you can buy warm up regulator rebuild kits. Not only does the prevalence of them on eBay confirm this is a relative regular failure point, but makes me think I may have a go at repairing my old one.