Wheels/Tyres: Anyone else getting their Winter tyres ready?

[Daim]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

After eight years of ownership I have yet to have the rear wheels break away on my 850,on ice, snow,mud or wet.What I have had is the front wheels losing adhesion ,therefore leaving me without steering,on ice and snow.
That is the reason I question the need to fit very expensive tyres to each corner for perhaps two days on a normal year,18th of December today and no need so far. If I lived further north then I would probably look at things in a different light.
As for the insurance question,my insurer states that as long as the tyres are legal for tread depth,size,load and speed rating they are happy.

Well, think of the following:

The rear tyres keep you stable in curves. If you glide forwards due to having no grip at the front, then the rear will basically push you forward (even though no power).

If you now fit winter tyres to the front axle, you will be able to steer, but then you get into the situation, that the tyres at the front will pull you into the curve, but the rears won't follow and you'll then end up turning into the corner... (i.e. you turn left, your car will spin anti clockwise, you turn right, it will spin clockwise).

[XC60MY12]

Originally Posted by Danger

Fitted mine just in time, the very next day I had snow, slush, ice, untreated roads all the way to work. Even taking the new tyre psychology out they performed better than i would have expected my normal tyres to. Never lost traction on the slush even when I booted it to see if i could lose traction. Just need to keep my head and not get cocky with it.

I would still say that HOW you drive in these conditions is 90% of it, proper equipment like good tyres helps, but practical experience is the key. If/when it all gets sideways i will be glad that I have the best chance of getting it back together.

No safety feature is infallible. Don't forget that there are other drivers on the road, though and not all are as careful as you.

[m0bzy]

Originally Posted by Daim

Well, think of the following:

The rear tyres keep you stable in curves. If you glide forwards due to having no grip at the front, then the rear will basically push you forward (even though no power).

If you now fit winter tyres to the front axle, you will be able to steer, but then you get into the situation, that the tyres at the front will pull you into the curve, but the rears won't follow and you'll then end up turning into the corner... (i.e. you turn left, your car will spin anti clockwise, you turn right, it will spin clockwise).

You are making a mountain out of a molehill here,I am not talking about curves,I am talking about final braking and initial adhesion,I would not allow myself to be put into the posistion of not being able to make a corner,driving to the prevailing conditions.
I do not subscribe to the modern mantra of gears to go,brakes to stop,on ice and snow I only use the brakes to kill the last bit of speed.The gears are used for slowing and in extreme conditions I will brake whilst keeping some power on.

[XC60MY12]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

After eight years of ownership I have yet to have the rear wheels break away on my 850,on ice, snow,mud or wet.What I have had is the front wheels losing adhesion ,therefore leaving me without steering,on ice and snow.
That is the reason I question the need to fit very expensive tyres to each corner for perhaps two days on a normal year,18th of December today and no need so far. If I lived further north then I would probably look at things in a different light.
As for the insurance question,my insurer states that as long as the tyres are legal for tread depth,size,load and speed rating they are happy.

So you've had no temperatures below 7c? Can you tell me when we will be having those "normal" winters? This is a matter of personal choice based on the available advice. I've decided to invest a lot of money in winter tyres because it's right for me. If asked, I would advise others to do so if their circumstances permit. If they don't perceive the need, that's their choice. Just hope they're not behind me if I need to stop suddenly.

[XC60MY12]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

You are making a mountain out of a molehill here,I am not talking about curves,I am talking about final braking and initial adhesion,I would not allow myself to be put into the posistion of not being able to make a corner,driving to the prevailing conditions.
I do not subscribe to the modern mantra of gears to go,brakes to stop,on ice and snow I only use the brakes to kill the last bit of speed.The gears are used for slowing and in extreme conditions I will brake whilst keeping some power on.

Not in an automatic.

[m0bzy]

Originally Posted by XC60Fan

Not in an automatic.

Never drive the things.

[XC60MY12]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

Never drive the things.

That's ok then. I never generalise.

[m0bzy]

Originally Posted by XC60Fan

So you've had no temperatures below 7c? Can you tell me when we will be having those "normal" winters? This is a matter of personal choice based on the available advice. I've decided to invest a lot of money in winter tyres because it's right for me. If asked, I would advise others to do so if their circumstances permit. If they don't perceive the need, that's their choice. Just hope they're not behind me if I need to stop suddenly.

Yes we have been below 7c but we have had very little rain,so the roads have so far been more dry than wet,and this is looking like a "normal" winter in this area,I could still be proved wrong of course,but so far so good.

[gjd]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

Yes we have been below 7c but we have had very little rain,so the roads have so far been more dry than wet,and this is looking like a "normal" winter in this area,I could still be proved wrong of course,but so far so good.

Hello

As well as a more "blocky" tread pattern, which includes a lot more perpendicular grooves to improve adhesion in snow, and to shift more water when it rains, winter tyres are made with a compound that stays softer in lower temperatures. This makes them "grippier" than regular tyres, which harden in the lower temperatures.

Wet or dry, the winter tyres should give better performance in lower temperatures to enhance your careful driving.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by m0bzy

As for the insurance question,my insurer states that as long as the tyres are legal for tread depth,size,load and speed rating they are happy.

Insurers can and do get confused and at times offer incorrect "advice" Simon J is correct as below.

Originally Posted by Simon J

I would imagine you could kiss goodbye to your insurance cover if you tried that stunt. It would be akin to fitting radials on the front and cross plies on the rear.

Originally Posted by tt82

…on a FWD car put them on the drive axle. You will then have the grip for acccelerating and braking but when cornering you will have a vast difference grip between front and rear axles. This will lead to a lot of rear end slides so great care is needed when cornering.

The above is bad advice and dangerous to do, hence in red. Car will have unusual handling and could spin out.Insurance may be invalidated

Originally Posted by Bill_56

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with that advice (winters on front wheels only), for reasons that have been endlessly explained in this thread.

Anybody who wants to disregard the earlier explanations would be well-advised to check the tyre and vehicle maker's recommendations.
If, as is very likely for front-drive cars, the tyre manufacturer, and the vehicle manufacturer recommend that winter tyres be fitted on all four wheels, then your insurers will probably decline to cover you when you tell them you are ignoring that you are ignoring these recommendations.

If you go ahead without telling your Insurers you could be driving without insurance as they would be able to refuse payout on the grounds that you invalidated the policy by withholding information.

Bill56 offers the correct advice, hence green for go!

Originally Posted by XC60Fan

So you've had no temperatures below 7c? Can you tell me when we will be having those "normal" winters? This is a matter of personal choice based on the available advice. I've decided to invest a lot of money in winter tyres because it's right for me. If asked, I would advise others to do so if their circumstances permit. If they don't perceive the need, that's their choice. Just hope they're not behind me if I need to stop suddenly.

XC60Fan is also correct in fitting 4 winter tyres at great expense.Daim is also correct.

The question is :-

Is it worth it just to save a few quid to put ones own and others safety in danger and possibly invalidate ones insurance or have a bump?

If fitting winter tyres fit 4.

Regards