Amazon: - Steering problem

TomTom · Apr 26th, 2018, 12:08

I noticed today that something was up with the steering geometry of my 1970 Amazon. It’s become a bit like one of those supermarket trolleys which I s just a bit more difficult to steer than you would like. One symptom is that the steering correction after going round a corner is a lot worse, and another one is that the car will veer to the right if I take my hands off the steering wheel. More than before anyway.

Would this just be tracking, do you think or something more serious? I did notice a nice dent in my rear bumper, so someone has knocked the car while parking.

Thanks

Faust · Apr 26th, 2018, 15:22

When you say the steering correction is a "lot worse" it's hard to know exactly what you mean... but there are a couple of things you can check:

(in no particular order)

Track rod ends & tie rods: are they all in good condition with no play in the ball joints? Get the car in the air and use a crowbar or similar to check for clunks or wobbles etc. No hard to replace or expensive.

Tracking: if your car has had a whack at the rear there is a possibility one of the front wheels hit a kerb with some force – this might throw the tracking out or have damaged a track rod (check as above).

Dampers and springs: if these are best their best, you'll certainly feel the car struggling when you're driving out of bends.

Anti-roll bar bushes & drop-links: all in good order? Again, you will really, really notice in the twisty bits if these parts are knackered.

Tyre pressures: they are they correct and both the same?

Steering column joint: any play in the couplings? You’ll have the collapsible type of column fitted. Not that hard to change the bushes (the parts are about 60 quid from memory and took about an hour on mine).

Steering wheel: it is fully tightened up? Might sound silly, but always check the obvious (and free!) things first. You will feel even the smallest amount of looseness in the wheel when you’re driving…

Idler arm: in good condition with no play? Pitman arm (the one that comes out of the steering box): is this also in good condition with no signs of play? (again, you’ll need to get the car in the air – both sides – to check these parts).

Steering box: I’m assuming you’ve not tightened up the adjustment screw to make the steering ‘better’? Is there the correct oil in the box, has it all leaked out? Worth having a good look.

Probably some other things that others will add – but good luck and let us know how you get on.

Mike

TomTom · Apr 26th, 2018, 18:02

This is really helpful Mike. Thank you.

classicswede · Apr 26th, 2018, 19:09

Top wishbones on the top of the list of checks

davidw6092 · Apr 27th, 2018, 06:38

Don't forget to look over all the suspension components at the back end of the car as well!Panhard rod bushes worn will make the car wander a lot,and all the other bushes have a part to play in general good handling of the car.It will probably be easiest to get someone to rock the steering wheel gently whilst you look at all the front end components,you are looking for "lost " movement in everything.

Derek UK · Apr 27th, 2018, 11:44

I instantly said to myself "over tightened steering box" when I read the first post. It's very important to have that correctly adjusted with the Pitman arm in the straight ahead position. Check that the marks on the arm and the steering box shaft are aligned. Probably need to take the nut off for that task. If when you're driving straight on a flat road the steering wheel settles a bit to the right or left take this into account when you do the adjustment.

I posted the following on Brickboard yesterday re a 140 steering box. Most of the content is relevant here and I didn't want to retype it.
"Lining up the marks is essential. Adjustment is made when the wheels are exactly in the straight ahead position. On an unworn box there will always be a bit of play at the steering wheel. 1" to 1 1/2" either side of centre is good but although the manual shows adjusting on the bench with a spring weight gauge doing it by feel is fine. It mustn't be adjusted too tight. With the front wheels off the ground, jack stands under the lower A arms there should be no tight spot when you move the steering wheel across the centre position.
New steering worms aren't available, they are part of the steering shaft. Box can be rebushed and reshimmed. This will not revive a box with a worn worm. If the lower bush is worn it will allow the shaft to move and that will quickly wear a new seal and it will start to leak again but just a new seal may cure the leak for many more miles. Easy to fit with the Pitman arm off.
A basic idea as to how much wear the worm has is by looking at the number of threads showing above the adjuster lock nut. 2 is good, 1 is pretty worn and less, very worn. Adjustment is still possible at the expense of more free play in the steering but with this design of box this play is always there to some degree and you get used to it. If you move the arm on the spline you will get a tight spot when you're driving and when cornering it will feel pretty nasty when a bend matches this spot.
Grease is not advised as it just clumps and dries out. If going with that idea there are some liquid steering box greases which do flow and are about 160 weight. Getting out the grease you have put in will be a problem.
What to do? Check the old box for worm wear by adjusting on the bench and reviewing the number of threads on the adjuster. Check for movement on the lower bush, If OK replace lower seal. If you're up to it dismantle the whole box. Wash and inspect everything, Check worm for wear marks and galling. Rebuild if OK. Consider rebuilding with new bushes. They need to be reamed to fit the shaft. A kit is available."

Yes, check all of the things suggested in the other posts.

Ron Kwas · Apr 27th, 2018, 12:09

Forum;

Good info by Derek as usual!...you mean the solution is not simply wanging down on the St Box adjustment...?

swedishandgerman · Apr 27th, 2018, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidw6092

Don't forget to look over all the suspension components at the back end of the car as well!Panhard rod bushes worn will make the car wander a lot,and all the other bushes have a part to play in general good handling of the car.It will probably be easiest to get someone to rock the steering wheel gently whilst you look at all the front end components,you are looking for "lost " movement in everything.

^^THIS!^^ Panhard Rod bushes result in shopping trolley-like steering

Apr 26th, 2018, 12:08	#1
TomTom Master Member Last Online: Jun 3rd, 2021 16:03 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: London	Steering problem I noticed today that something was up with the steering geometry of my 1970 Amazon. It’s become a bit like one of those supermarket trolleys which I s just a bit more difficult to steer than you would like. One symptom is that the steering correction after going round a corner is a lot worse, and another one is that the car will veer to the right if I take my hands off the steering wheel. More than before anyway. Would this just be tracking, do you think or something more serious? I did notice a nice dent in my rear bumper, so someone has knocked the car while parking. Thanks

Apr 26th, 2018, 19:09	#4
classicswede Trader Volvo in my veins Last Online: Yesterday 22:24 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anglesey	Top wishbones on the top of the list of checks __________________ http://www.classicswede.org www.classicswede.co.uk

Apr 27th, 2018, 06:38	#5
davidw6092 Senior Member Last Online: Oct 4th, 2023 06:43 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Banbury	suspension Don't forget to look over all the suspension components at the back end of the car as well!Panhard rod bushes worn will make the car wander a lot,and all the other bushes have a part to play in general good handling of the car.It will probably be easiest to get someone to rock the steering wheel gently whilst you look at all the front end components,you are looking for "lost " movement in everything.

Apr 26th, 2018, 15:22	#2
Faust Master Member Last Online: Yesterday 00:34 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Nottingham	When you say the steering correction is a "lot worse" it's hard to know exactly what you mean... but there are a couple of things you can check: (in no particular order) Track rod ends & tie rods: are they all in good condition with no play in the ball joints? Get the car in the air and use a crowbar or similar to check for clunks or wobbles etc. No hard to replace or expensive. Tracking: if your car has had a whack at the rear there is a possibility one of the front wheels hit a kerb with some force – this might throw the tracking out or have damaged a track rod (check as above). Dampers and springs: if these are best their best, you'll certainly feel the car struggling when you're driving out of bends. Anti-roll bar bushes & drop-links: all in good order? Again, you will really, really notice in the twisty bits if these parts are knackered. Tyre pressures: they are they correct and both the same? Steering column joint: any play in the couplings? You’ll have the collapsible type of column fitted. Not that hard to change the bushes (the parts are about 60 quid from memory and took about an hour on mine). Steering wheel: it is fully tightened up? Might sound silly, but always check the obvious (and free!) things first. You will feel even the smallest amount of looseness in the wheel when you’re driving… Idler arm: in good condition with no play? Pitman arm (the one that comes out of the steering box): is this also in good condition with no signs of play? (again, you’ll need to get the car in the air – both sides – to check these parts). Steering box: I’m assuming you’ve not tightened up the adjustment screw to make the steering ‘better’? Is there the correct oil in the box, has it all leaked out? Worth having a good look. Probably some other things that others will add – but good luck and let us know how you get on. Mike

Apr 26th, 2018, 18:02	#3
TomTom Master Member Last Online: Jun 3rd, 2021 16:03 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: London	This is really helpful Mike. Thank you.

Apr 27th, 2018, 11:44	#6
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Today 12:04 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	I instantly said to myself "over tightened steering box" when I read the first post. It's very important to have that correctly adjusted with the Pitman arm in the straight ahead position. Check that the marks on the arm and the steering box shaft are aligned. Probably need to take the nut off for that task. If when you're driving straight on a flat road the steering wheel settles a bit to the right or left take this into account when you do the adjustment. I posted the following on Brickboard yesterday re a 140 steering box. Most of the content is relevant here and I didn't want to retype it. "Lining up the marks is essential. Adjustment is made when the wheels are exactly in the straight ahead position. On an unworn box there will always be a bit of play at the steering wheel. 1" to 1 1/2" either side of centre is good but although the manual shows adjusting on the bench with a spring weight gauge doing it by feel is fine. It mustn't be adjusted too tight. With the front wheels off the ground, jack stands under the lower A arms there should be no tight spot when you move the steering wheel across the centre position. New steering worms aren't available, they are part of the steering shaft. Box can be rebushed and reshimmed. This will not revive a box with a worn worm. If the lower bush is worn it will allow the shaft to move and that will quickly wear a new seal and it will start to leak again but just a new seal may cure the leak for many more miles. Easy to fit with the Pitman arm off. A basic idea as to how much wear the worm has is by looking at the number of threads showing above the adjuster lock nut. 2 is good, 1 is pretty worn and less, very worn. Adjustment is still possible at the expense of more free play in the steering but with this design of box this play is always there to some degree and you get used to it. If you move the arm on the spline you will get a tight spot when you're driving and when cornering it will feel pretty nasty when a bend matches this spot. Grease is not advised as it just clumps and dries out. If going with that idea there are some liquid steering box greases which do flow and are about 160 weight. Getting out the grease you have put in will be a problem. What to do? Check the old box for worm wear by adjusting on the bench and reviewing the number of threads on the adjuster. Check for movement on the lower bush, If OK replace lower seal. If you're up to it dismantle the whole box. Wash and inspect everything, Check worm for wear marks and galling. Rebuild if OK. Consider rebuilding with new bushes. They need to be reamed to fit the shaft. A kit is available." Yes, check all of the things suggested in the other posts.

Apr 27th, 2018, 12:09	#7
Ron Kwas Premier Member Last Online: Today 15:46 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Connecticut, USA	Forum; Good info by Derek as usual!...you mean the solution is not simply wanging down on the St Box adjustment...?

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