I must admit, I'm a bit bored of my T5.

[domhart10]

Originally Posted by T5R92011

My car is indeed still stock. I guess an intercooler and a remap is in order.

The car is fast as stock, and below 100mph it keeps my colleagues e46 330ci in check....

My previous (slightly newer) S60 2.0T has max bhp at 5,500 rpm and the engine felt a bit more lively than the 2.5T at the top end due to the extra 500rpm on the max power cut in.

Yeh trust me once you get a remap on it, it will blow your mind. Yes an intercooler is a good point to upgrade to help keep temp down but if you are going for just an initial stage 1 map then I personally wouldnt bother unless you plan on doing track days. I would defenitly consider getting a block mod regardless of map or not as these are sadly a weak point in our engine and will tend to be a failing point in time, worht doing when the timing belt is due.

Sorry Clan I have no idea where you get that from? I havent really heard of these T5 engines blowing up. I follow the T5 community online as well as the ST225 and never heard of anything blowing up from a map at all, nothing but good reports. If mapping go reputable and there are a good selection of experience volvo mapper out there, dont need to go polestar.

The block mod is must on our cars to enforce reliability, even on standard power they will fail. Only other things that can really fail with a map are general wear and tear items like clutches which are already coming close to their life .....

[LizardOfBodom]

Originally Posted by Clan

At least you know its reliable and you can drive it flat out all day without the engine blowing up ! Unlike lot of so called modified engine cars ...

LOL, how is it different than "black market" map? Software is a software, whether modified by Polestar or not. Why should it be "more reliable" than reputable tuner with years of experience and succesful history of modding? Hilton, Shark, Rica, whatever - ultimately they provide the same that Polestar map would do, minus badge and frew hundres euros.
Sorry, but the way you say "Polestar map wont blow your engine but other maps will do" seem a bit misleading to others.

T5R9210 - for just s1 you dont need bigger IC, agree with Dom on this. It would help, for sure, but its not needed. Map will get your useable pull to almost 6500rpm limit and trust me it transforms the car drastically. I always disliked the stock "pull until 5.2k and thats it" behaviour, map will change it an you will be much more happy.

Dom - block mod you refer to? Is that to prevent cracking liners or something different? How is it done, I havent heard many people doing it tbh, un less they were going extreme tuning.

[dme123]

Originally Posted by LizardOfBodom

LOL, how is it different than "black market" map? Software is a software, whether modified by Polestar or not. Why should it be "more reliable" than reputable tuner with years of experience and succesful history of modding? Hilton, Shark, Rica, whatever - ultimately they provide the same that Polestar map would do, minus badge and frew hundres euros.
Sorry, but the way you say "Polestar map wont blow your engine but other maps will do" seem a bit misleading to others.

.

Polestar have the benefit of access to all of the design specs of every part of the engine; do you think Rica or Shark know, care about, or even have the means to calculate the turbine speed of the turbo to avoid overspeeding it?

Polestar also have access to OEM level calibration tools and testing environments, rather than "drive a couple of thousand miles and if it doesn't go bang then it's fine" testing that aftermarket tuners have to rely on. I am sure none of them even have an engine dyno, much less proper CFD simulation software to have the first idea what's really going on in the combustion chamber. Do they have the software to accurately calculate torque spikes and the means to then measure them so they know that they are not doing long term damage to the DMF and gearbox?

I'm afraid that if you think the work of aftermarket tuners can even come comes close to the quality of an OEM or in house tuner (Polestar) calibration then you do not have the first idea what is involved in modern powertrain calibration.

So yes the Polestar maps are more expensive, and with a lower power output, but given my experience of "reputable" tuners it's the only option I'd consider now.

[Markos01]

Originally Posted by LizardOfBodom

Map will get your useable pull to almost 6500rpm limit and trust me it transforms the car drastically. I always disliked the stock "pull until 5.2k and thats it" behaviour, map will change it an you will be much more happy.

This. I need more 'pull' in the higher revs!

Originally Posted by LizardOfBodom

Dom - block mod you refer to? Is that to prevent cracking liners or something different? How is it done, I havent heard many people doing it tbh, un less they were going extreme tuning.

Got mine done by Tim Williams when I did my belts earlier this year. Not a lot of money on top of the belt change so a 'nice to have' even on a non-mapped car.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by LizardOfBodom

LOL, how is it different than "black market" map? Software is a software, whether modified by Polestar or not. Why should it be "more reliable" than reputable tuner with years of experience and succesful history of modding? Hilton, Shark, Rica, whatever - ultimately they provide the same that Polestar map would do, minus badge and frew hundres euros.
Sorry, but the way you say "Polestar map wont blow your engine but other maps will do" seem a bit misleading to others.

T5R9210 - for just s1 you dont need bigger IC, agree with Dom on this. It would help, for sure, but its not needed. Map will get your useable pull to almost 6500rpm limit and trust me it transforms the car drastically. I always disliked the stock "pull until 5.2k and thats it" behaviour, map will change it an you will be much more happy.

Dom - block mod you refer to? Is that to prevent cracking liners or something different? How is it done, I havent heard many people doing it tbh, un less they were going extreme tuning.

I'm afraid you misquoted me there !

I'm into motorsport and watching people driving their cars around racing circuits . Also i have developed my own 998cc engine to produce over 170 bhp over a period of 10 years and currently have an emerald K6 programmable ECU . It is capable of 7000+ rpm for long periods . An Exhaust Temperature Gauge is essential , how many modified cars do you see with one of these ? Volvos have them ... you would be shocked how many of these professionally "tuned" cars have engine blow ups when running full power for any length of time on a circuit , not just on track days but in races , especially at the start of the season when fresh engines have not been run at full power for long before .. In normal everyday driving you are never able to reach full power or are able to use that for more than a few seconds at a time . a 30 minute session sorts the good from the bad ...
The small intercooler on the S40 T5 is useless when compared to the "proper T5" on the big volvos , It just about copes with the use it gets on public roads ... Luckily the engine software reduces the power if the air inlet temperature gets excessive .
You get what you pay for with Polestar and with most other volvo parts ...

[domhart10]

Originally Posted by dme123

Polestar have the benefit of access to all of the design specs of every part of the engine; do you think Rica or Shark know, care about, or even have the means to calculate the turbine speed of the turbo to avoid overspeeding it?

Polestar also have access to OEM level calibration tools and testing environments, rather than "drive a couple of thousand miles and if it doesn't go bang then it's fine" testing that aftermarket tuners have to rely on. I am sure none of them even have an engine dyno, much less proper CFD simulation software to have the first idea what's really going on in the combustion chamber. Do they have the software to accurately calculate torque spikes and the means to then measure them so they know that they are not doing long term damage to the DMF and gearbox?

I'm afraid that if you think the work of aftermarket tuners can even come comes close to the quality of an OEM or in house tuner (Polestar) calibration then you do not have the first idea what is involved in modern powertrain calibration.

So yes the Polestar maps are more expensive, and with a lower power output, but given my experience of "reputable" tuners it's the only option I'd consider now.

It just sounds like you are basing all your views on assumtions? many mappers do have rolling roads or access to use them and by your comment on Shark, Shark dont even exist anymore and Rica have an incredibly aggressive map so I would probably steer clear.

You need to look at mappers like Shemtek or Tim Williams who know how these cars work with experience and a long records of incredibly great maps. Knowing things like the turbo cut outs etc which mappers like Shark didnt know about. Of course polestar had access directly but that is just a generic map, every car runs differently so having a custom map to your car will run it better. There is no one map done, it is a case of working with a reliable mapper to get your base tune done and fine tuning to your car.

[FunkyMelon]

Originally Posted by dme123

Polestar have the benefit of access to all of the design specs of every part of the engine; do you think Rica or Shark know, care about, or even have the means to calculate the turbine speed of the turbo to avoid overspeeding it?

In short, yes, there will be a datasheet for the turbo with all of it's specifications and tolerances, that's all they need on that part.

Originally Posted by dme123

I am sure none of them even have an engine dyno, much less proper CFD simulation software to have the first idea what's really going on in the combustion chamber. Do they have the software to accurately calculate torque spikes and the means to then measure them so they know that they are not doing long term damage to the DMF and gearbox?

Can't be bothered to answer that because it's frankly daft, yes, of course they have access to all that, you can get timings, A/F ratios etc most of the base figures just polling off sensors in the car.

Originally Posted by dme123

I'm afraid that if you think the work of aftermarket tuners can even come comes close to the quality of an OEM or in house tuner (Polestar) calibration then you do not have the first idea what is involved in modern powertrain calibration.

Please tell me, what do Polestar do differently to an aftermarket tuner? They'll use the same equipment, same hardware and figure out safe tolerances......

Originally Posted by dme123

So yes the Polestar maps are more expensive, and with a lower power output, but given my experience of "reputable" tuners it's the only option I'd consider now.

Polestar themselves are a relatively new company. They're just a team of tuners that fiddled with Volvos that Volvo happen to purchase......Just like our friends out there also providing remaps - They're not Volvo engineers, they're not rocket scientists, just normal people who make Volvo's go faster and have a good understanding of engines.

I'd go as far as saying that Tim Williams, Shem etc all know a hell of a lot more about Volvo engines than Volvo themselves.

Volvo (for example) STILL recommend 0W30 oil for our cars - When I asked Tim about this, he said you'd have to be an idiot to use 0W30 and that he'd rebuilt 13 bottom ends on Volvo T5's/Focus ST's so far this year and to use 10W40. 0W30 is too thin for these engines.

Ask your local Volvo dealer if they know about the block mod - Mine had certainly never heard of it or ever heard of a T5 engine failing due to a cracked cylinder

[LizardOfBodom]

Originally Posted by dme123

Polestar have the benefit of access to all of the design specs of every part of the engine; do you think Rica or Shark know, care about, or even have the means to calculate the turbine speed of the turbo to avoid overspeeding it?

...

Have you thought about how how polestar map is bought? Its a generic software pack you buy at your dealership that reprogram your ECU to generic values allowing your car to recieve higher output etc. Yes, all based on polestar tests (hopefully) etc etc but you buy it, ts programmed in, and thats it.
Now how is it better than aftermarket tuner that takes your car, map it, test it on dyno/read the WOT graph (yes, they actually do that) and then modify it to customise it to your car better? My 13 y old T5 engine will be different than your 13y old T5 engine, or any other T5 engine by it means. Its like CPU overclocking - one will go to 4Ghz, another to 4.1, all because those small differeces even on the exactly same hardware.
So I am not saying that polestar maps are bad or anything, I am sure you get what you pay for. BUT any tuner can potentially achieve the same or better as he can do multiple tests on the same car and customise map perfectly. Hilton did 5 versions for my car, each of them a little bit better than previous, until we got "sweet spot" so thats what engine can do best with current setup (stock IC etc). How is that worse than polestar map?

Clan - sorry, didnt mean to misquote you, butthats how I understood your post, "either Polestar or explosion" :P I am not surte whether maps are worth it or not, genuinely would love to see comparison between POlestar map and good aftermarket one on the same stock engine.
So far, I can only say - aftermarket map works fine, gives plenty of power per your bucks and is considerably cheaper. For older cars outside of warranty I am not sure going OEM Polestar tune would make sense...

[Clan]

Originally Posted by FunkyMelon

In short, yes, there will be a datasheet for the turbo with all of it's specifications and tolerances, that's all they need on that part.



Can't be bothered to answer that because it's frankly daft, yes, of course they have access to all that, you can get timings, A/F ratios etc most of the base figures just polling off sensors in the car.



Please tell me, what do Polestar do differently to an aftermarket tuner? They'll use the same equipment, same hardware and figure out safe tolerances......



Polestar themselves are a relatively new company. They're just a team of tuners that fiddled with Volvos that Volvo happen to purchase......Just like our friends out there also providing remaps - They're not Volvo engineers, they're not rocket scientists, just normal people who make Volvo's go faster and have a good understanding of engines.

I'd go as far as saying that Tim Williams, Shem etc all know a hell of a lot more about Volvo engines than Volvo themselves.

Volvo (for example) STILL recommend 0W30 oil for our cars - When I asked Tim about this, he said you'd have to be an idiot to use 0W30 and that he'd rebuilt 13 bottom ends on Volvo T5's/Focus ST's so far this year and to use 10W40. 0W30 is too thin for these engines.

Ask your local Volvo dealer if they know about the block mod - Mine had certainly never heard of it or ever heard of a T5 engine failing due to a cracked cylinder

polestar have been volvos motorsport partners for the last 20 years and volvo bought them out!
I don't suppose you know about the Polestar super cars that are out now either ?

It is pretty clear by the above comments that people have a lot of research to do here.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by LizardOfBodom

Have you thought about how how polestar map is bought? Its a generic software pack you buy at your dealership that reprogram your ECU to generic values allowing your car to recieve higher output etc. Yes, all based on polestar tests (hopefully) etc etc but you buy it, ts programmed in, and thats it.
Now how is it better than aftermarket tuner that takes your car, map it, test it on dyno/read the WOT graph (yes, they actually do that) and then modify it to customise it to your car better? My 13 y old T5 engine will be different than your 13y old T5 engine, or any other T5 engine by it means. Its like CPU overclocking - one will go to 4Ghz, another to 4.1, all because those small differeces even on the exactly same hardware.
So I am not saying that polestar maps are bad or anything, I am sure you get what you pay for. BUT any tuner can potentially achieve the same or better as he can do multiple tests on the same car and customise map perfectly. Hilton did 5 versions for my car, each of them a little bit better than previous, until we got "sweet spot" so thats what engine can do best with current setup (stock IC etc). How is that worse than polestar map?

Clan - sorry, didnt mean to misquote you, butthats how I understood your post, "either Polestar or explosion" :P I am not surte whether maps are worth it or not, genuinely would love to see comparison between POlestar map and good aftermarket one on the same stock engine.
So far, I can only say - aftermarket map works fine, gives plenty of power per your bucks and is considerably cheaper. For older cars outside of warranty I am not sure going OEM Polestar tune would make sense...

thats ok Lizard no problem i think i explained my reasoning pretty clearly in my previous posts ..:-)

There is a total misunderstanding about engine development and testing and polestar etc according to the above paragraph ..