940 broken down, second time today!

[Laney760]

FUEL PUMP! Brilliant RAC man. Everything working, injectors switching over, he banged pump, she started but can't turn her off. Have to go, taking her to a garage in Henley for new fuel pump!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Laney760

FUEL PUMP! Brilliant RAC man. Everything working, injectors switching over, he banged pump, she started but can't turn her off. Have to go, taking her to a garage in Henley for new fuel pump!

Why didn't the first RAC guy find it??????

We'd already discounted the fuel pump because you could hear it, admittedly sometimes fuel pumps will make noise and do nothing in terms of pumping though.

Glad you've found the fault and can now get it sorted, good idea getting that fuel pump relay, the old pump will no doubt have been working extra hard before failing so could have burned the contacts in the relay somewhat so very handy to keep in the car as a "go to" spare if it plays up in future!

Or, fit the new fuel pump relay now and keep the old one as an emergency spare.

[mocambique-amazone]

Originally Posted by Laney760

FUEL PUMP! Brilliant RAC man. Everything working, injectors switching over, he banged pump, she started but can't turn her off. Have to go, taking her to a garage in Henley for new fuel pump!

Be aware!!!
The new full fuel pump unit is very very expensive!!! More than 300 pounds. and NLA!
Ask in front of the asking price.

fuel pump only volvo original
http://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts...ctric/1014285/

fuel pump aftermarket (good eough)
http://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts...r-kit/1010999/


your car should be with the cap in plastic, if not and there is lot of corrosion you will need another one, used one I'm afraid. I don't remember the name in english and the part number, sorry. The plastic in black where the fuel lines are connected too, on top of the fuel cell.

[mocambique-amazone]

[QUOTE=Laird Scooby;2456226]Why didn't the first RAC guy find it??????

because they have no tools on board anymore.. Nothing to check fuel pressure, only digital diagnostic "tools".
and batteries to sell them to you, overpriced fore shure

[Stephen Edwin]

The RAC have a by now long history re battery sales yes. A patrol tried it on me about 20 years ago. The BBC exposed them. They have fairly recently re-launched battery sales in an overt way.

Re the car, I am glad the cause appears to have been found. I was cogitating overnight that there must be SOMETHING that is not known or not been considered.

Perhaps there is a tendency to consider electronics, or water in the petrol tank, &c. And overlook or discount the fundamental test, does the fuel pump actually pump fuel? Or does that need a fuel pressure gauge nowadays?

That shredded alternator belt is still a mystery.

[Laird Scooby]

[QUOTE=mocambique-amazone;2456235]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Why didn't the first RAC guy find it??????

because they have no tools on board anymore.. Nothing to check fuel pressure, only digital diagnostic "tools".
and batteries to sell them to you, overpriced fore shure

I suspect you're probably right - like i've said many times, if they can't plug it in, they're stumped.

Trouble is, they only teach removal and refitting of parts in college these days, all diagnosis is done with the "computer". The real skills aren't being taught anymore, fortunately there are still some youngsters that intrinsically possess those diagnostic skills - few and far between sadly.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

The RAC have a by now long history re battery sales yes. A patrol tried it on me about 20 years ago. The BBC exposed them. They have fairly recently re-launched battery sales in an overt way.

Re the car, I am glad the cause appears to have been found. I was cogitating overnight that there must be SOMETHING that is not known or not been considered.

Perhaps there is a tendency to consider electronics, or water in the petrol tank, &c. And overlook or discount the fundamental test, does the fuel pump actually pump fuel? Or does that need a fuel pressure gauge nowadays?

That shredded alternator belt is still a mystery.

It's a very simple ploy - turn up to a broken down car, put the voltmeter and then battery tester on and "prove" the battery doesn't have much capacity in it.

Of course it doesn't - the poor owner has been stranded by the roadside for hours, initially trying to start a broken down car in the vain hope it will fire and keep running long enough to get off the hard shoulder before the powers that be change the hard shoulder to a commuter lane and during all this, the hazard warning lights have been running (running the battery down!) to alert other motorists of a dead vehicle in the hard shoulder/commuter lane.

The fuel pump (in case you missed it in the thread Stephen) was considered but discounted as it could be heard running. A fuel line pressure test is the only way really to prove whether it's delivering fuel.

Usually with a fault like this, it is something obvious and normally, all the evidence is there from the start. This time though it seems a partial failure of the fuel pump caused a few red herrings because it could be heard running at times although not hard/fast enough to deliver fuel it seems! Often motors will give a hum/buzz when jammed/stuck and to the "untrained" ear, this can sound like it's running - one of the major drawbacks of remote diagnostics via a forum sadly.

Thankfully this RAC guy seemed to have his head screwed on and gave the pump a whack (presumably by banging the bottom of the tank in the right area) and it came back to life. I'm guessing he heard the buzz/hum/whirr of a stuck pump, recognised it and acted accordingly with percussive maintenance.

I wonder if the shredded alternator belt was the wrong profile? Volvo belts have a very specific profile, although most of the time others will fit and work fine, occasionally the pulleys are worn to the correct profile and can shred an incorrect profile belt because it sits deeper in the pulley groove. Usually they last longer than 20 miles though!

[Laney760]

Hi to All

Both RAC guys had a full truck of tools

I did think that maybe the whirr I was hearing was maybe the starter motor and maybe I was wrong and couldn't hear the fuel pump

I told Chris the RAC guy today that all the other guy had done was try and plug it in, have a cursorary visual look over the engine and fibbed he'd checked the fuses

Chris, very quickly, within 5 - 10 minutes, checked and eliminated everything on the ignition side and everything else and finally said that the injectors were switching over so it could only be fuel pump or incorrect fuel. We eliminated the latter and he had me cranking it over whilst he thumped the fuel tank with a wooden mallet and she immediately started. He said there are about 6 jets??? around the pump and if I switched off and it lined up with the/a bad one it wouldn't start again so I had to get it straight to a garage. I've taken it to a local garage who I used to use and to be fair I do wonder why I stopped using them, there was only one incident with them where I was dissapointed over many years

I told Chris I am going to sing his praises to RAC!

RAC's reply to my complaint that their first technician had not even tried to find the fault evaded the question I feel, their reply was that they can't always achieve a roadside repair. I am going to reply back

Thank you all so much. I left the new fuel pump relay fitted anyway and the spare is in the glove box

I will replace the crank sensor in my own time when I am not stressed and I am going to look into the top levels of breakdown cover with AA

I have now done about 150 thou is this car, is there anything I ought to be replacing as a precaution? I am surprised my turbo is still going strong, I have done 80 thou on this clutch now and she is still not slipping. The injectors surely will not go on forever? Cam belt I had replaced in the last couple of years

[Laird Scooby]

Chris obviously knows his stuff - the RACs answer was indeed evasive and their own technician (Chris) has proved a roadside repair was indeed possible.

I wouldn't bother about the AA, your car is too old for them to cover and they don't offer "Personal Cover" like the RAC do. The benefit of Personal Cover is they cover the member, not the vehicle so even as a passenger, you can invoke all benefits of your membership.

Also the AA were (i don't know if they've improved but i doubt it!) even more useless than the RAC, the number of times i'd see an AA beavertail arrive with a "dead" car on the back and the diagnosis given as something totally unrelated to the actual fault is incredible. One in particular i remember, Calibra 4x4 turbo arrived with supposedly a dead starter motor.

Checked everything, all seemed good so turned the key. Partial movement of the engine on its mountings but not turning. Tried turning the engine by hand with a socket on the crank pulley, wouldn't turn.
Removed the plugs, tried on the crank pulley again - turned!

Leaving the bonnet open, i then tried the starter again and saw 4 jets of coolant shoot out from the spark plug holes!

Head gasket! Starter was fine!

Back to what you're asking though, the injectors would probably benefit from being cleaned/refurbished :

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/emerald-se...ditioning.html

Depending which injectors you have, it might be cheaper to find a set of the updated injectors from a newer model/different car. My 760 is now running about on a set of Omega 3.2 V6 injectors as they are the same as the updated injectors Bosch would recommend for mine, it's possible yours uses the same injectors.

As for the turbo, do you let the engine idle for a minute or two before switching off? Doing this will prolong the life of the turbo, they can and do go, usually the bearings and seals resulting in a James Bond style, white smoke-screen from your exhaust. New cores are available for about £100 on fleabay which essentially gives you a new turbo.

Apparently the coolant and oil pipes to/from the turbo are a weal point on the 940 turbo models, they both fur up from what i understand resulting in loss of flow of whichever fluid is in them, both fluids are needed by the turbo for longevity. Maybe next time it goes in for a service you can get them to check these hoses and let you know how good/bad they are.

Other than that, regular fluid/filter changes should really be all it needs to achieve inter-galactic mileage. Is yours auto or manual? Regular changes of the ATF will also help and likewise the PAS fluid (same stuff, just goes in the steering instead) will keep your steering nice and working well.

Coolant and brake fluid should ideally be changed every 2 years and although not really specified in the service blurb, the rear axle oil should be changed at some point.

[Laney760]

I'll take on board what you say about the AA Dave although their website does say ''We'll cover vehicles of any age or mileage''

Edit - my reply to RAC:


Hello. I don't think that you understand what happened. Your patrol man A******** who first attended on Tuesday night did no diagnostics, he made no real attempt to find out what was wrong with the car. He had a cursorary visual look over my engine, tried to plug it in and get codes and lied that he'd checked the fuses. Your excellent patrol man Chris today did standard checks under the bonnet (ignnition coil, plugs, spark, distributor, injectors etc.. ) and within 5 - 10 minutes had eliminated everything bar incorrect fuel or fuel pump and quickly establised it was fuel pump. He was excellent. Why couldn't your first patrol man Andy have done these bog standard checks that every patrol man I have ever had out does? I could then have been relayed to a garage yesterday morning and not had all this stress. Your first patrol man should have tried to establish the cause of not starting, he should have done basic checks on ignition and fuel systems.