850R Engine oils ?

Originally Posted by MIKES T5R

As you would probably agree if you talk to someone face to face the way you explain things is different to the way you would write them down via say, this forum.
i am finding it very hard to explain myself, but basically the new bmw's from the year 2000 onwards are designed so that instead of the oil just trapping particles from the engine (i originally used the word crud liberally) like older oils did, the edge oils will collect these particles then will evaporate. Hence why they need to be topped up at regular intervals between services.Your BMWS from what you have said were all older than this.
As for your wifes one year old one if it was from a dealer they would advise this.
I have a friend who works in the Woods BMW dealership near me and he agrees 100% with me.If i can't believe him and also the Castrol rep who comes in to see me then what more can i say.

sounds like someones been spinning you a yarn, all this about oil collecting particles then evaporating is total nonsense, if a engine starts to burn appreciable amounts of oil then its finding its way into the combustion chambers either down the guides caused by worn seals/guides, past the rings due to worn oil control rings /bore wear, or excesive crankcase pressure forcing it up past the rings, these defects would not be found in a new engine (unless of course bmw quality control has gone totally to pot), and to suggest bmw would design a engine to burn oil is just plain daft, as ive said any particles etc are removed by the oil filter and any contaminants in he form of water fuel etc are flashed of as the oil reaches it full working temp (which is why its important to give your car a good run as often as poss) by the way i check the oil in the missus bmw weekly and as said it uses very little between services and if it did start to use large amounts of oil it would be back to bmw pretty quick

[Jod T5]

Originally Posted by MIKES T5R

The latest customer who came in which was only a few days ago had a BMW x5 3.0 diesel, 55 plate, actually had a bottle of the oil in her hand which came with the car. She had no idea even where the bonnet catch was.But she was told by Bmw that it must have the edge oils which she moaned about due to the price and the fact that her husband had to have a litre only months earlier.The service intervals are a lot further apart on these vehicles.

im sorry but if this is policy i would steer well clear
cheers
jod

[DeejayP999]

Originally Posted by chow

...any contaminants in he form of water fuel etc are flashed of as the oil reaches it full working temp (which is why its important to give your car a good run as often as poss)

I'd imagine that this is what Castrol (or their reps) are actually on about. They're probably trying to make a marketing ploy out of something that all oils do anyway.

I must say that I have a hard time believing that any engine nowadays would be designed to use oil - if nothing else, emission regs would mean that such an engine would be unlikely to gain type approval.

Originally Posted by DeejayP999

I'd imagine that this is what Castrol (or their reps) are actually on about. They're probably trying to make a marketing ploy out of something that all oils do anyway.

I must say that I have a hard time believing that any engine nowadays would be designed to use oil - if nothing else, emission regs would mean that such an engine would be unlikely to gain type approval.

quite right ,however i think mikes got it a bit confused over the issue he has obviously been told this by the local motoring "expert" down at the dog and duck and is all got a bit mixed up in the re telling as you say the notion that in these days of ever increasing emmision control any manufacturer let alone bmw would design such a engine is quite ridiculous

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by MIKES T5R

Do you live on planet earth,as i think you spend all your time swatting up on info but probably cannot even drive!!!

I do hope that you do not treat your customers like this!!! From your posts so far i think i would go elsewhere when looking for a garage.

Maybe if you put your views accross with more facts and information like chow then people might take you seriously. If what your saying is true then i dont think it would be to hard for you to obtain information that backs up your statements considering "as you put it" you have been selling oil for 18 years.

yes certain cars may burn oil whether from a fault or a non direct design consideration (ie the car isnt designed to burn oil but it does by design). And regards to the oil evaporating to get rid of the crud - i dont think so!!

oil is designed to absorb and neutralise the (bad) combustable byproducts and the service interval is determined by factors such as whent he oil starts to break down and the oil is saturated with these byproducts. so knowing all this why would you want to evaporate a small amount of oil???

[bb54]

i guess i should stop using 3 in 1 then :-)

a very informative and amusing read.
thanks to all those that have made me wiser and a bigger thank you to those that have made me feel knowledgable by comparison.

wayne

[MIKES T5R]

Hi, my name is Phil from the DOG and DUCK I have been reading this with interest and I thought it maybe time to jump in and give my opinion after a few beers.

Chow, you are perfectly correct up to a point with the loss of oil due to engine wear etc but I will explain shortly as to where you loose the plot.

For an example I will use the FORD OHC engine from 1968 onwards.
This engine and many like it had a reputation for being high mileage around the 80 thousand mark and would be in need of a refresh, in the early eighties you would be weary about buying a car with this mileage.
In 1983 Ford changed the engine materials but not the engine design, the metals used were better along with the oil and the new type of oil seals, as a result this engine had become capable of 200 thousand miles if maintained correctly. The engine was now smoother running and better balanced complimented by a cleaner engine and longer service interval [drain]

The oil seals used to be made of a rubber and required a little residue from the oil to seal them preventing leaks, modern oil seals need to be clean or they shrink and leak. An old engine [from the 1960s] will suffer a change to a modern oil the same way as the modern engines suffer the use of old [20w50] oils as they cannot cope with the bi products of the modern commbustion process.

The oil in your car holds all the soot, acid etc and takes it to the filter, as the oil ages it cannot do this as well so it changes colour. No matter how good your oil is the manufacture of the engine decides how long your service interval should be playing on the safe side. You should stick to this or more often if you can afford to.

Modern engine flush as made by Castrol, WYNNS etc are designed to remove deposits which stick to your engine when you drain the oil waiting for the new oil to come around and pick them up, oil flush means a fresh start.

In order to keep cost down on servicing, oils, plugs, filters and engine designs have changed. BMW and V.A.G group being the first to do this with the help of Castrol who now produce a range of oils designed to complement the longer drain period. The idea of the oil is to be lost through EVAPORATION, REMOVING some of the HARMFULL DEPOSITS with it, REQUIRING the NEED to top up inbetween service intervals, checking the oil on a regular basis, some cars are need more frequent topping up than others.

The superb marketing by Castrol takes away the idiot, the person who knows better or is missguided with an outdated opinion, or simply just tight with his/her money not willing to pay that much for oil followed by the purchase of a novelty £3.99 air freshener. Does not make sense to me. Castrol have taken away the choice to make sure you have the correct oil for your car.

The government have had to make it law for a plumer to install the boiler and an electrician to wire it up as the plumer is not a qualified electrician and vice versa. In the same way a mechanic can strip and rebuild an engine with his eyes shut, ask a mechanic for an opinion on oil and I am sure he will have one even though he has never been educated about it. The same as most customers.

So, modern engine, modern oil, new solution.

christ it gets worse ,you start badly by getting the date the ohc pinto engine was introduced wrong, it was 1970 not 68 then its all downhill ,you fail to mention the pintos great weakness, its poor oil feed supply to the cam which resulted in frequent cam changes, the rest of the engine was very sound, so much so that the twin cam engine introduced much later was based on it, as for all the gobblygook about rubber oil seals, better metals, you have certainly lost me, further id love to know how the oil evaporates and takes solid particles of "soot" with it, and where does it go? , have you any idea what temp synthetic oil evaporates at??? and do you seriously think that the oil reaches anything like temp in a piston engine ?(it doesnt reach it in a gas turbine engine) no ,if i were you phil id get back to the dog and duck and get a few more pints down your neck, leave it for a further few days and try again, or better still put on your brown dustcoat and get back behind that counter and leave the technical stuff alone.

[MIKES T5R]

Correct mr chow, the engine suffered from bad lubrication to the cam from the spray bar above, as this is a thin tube just under the rocker cover. The engine suffered also from the poor quality of oil left in for to long leaving deposits and blocking the tube followed by uncouth, uneducated members of the public with a tiny bit of knowledge, leaving the oil in for far to long, when eventually changing the oil they opt for thicker oil [thicker, are you related] to take away the noise. To make themselves feel good about the money they save on the product thinking they have one over on the Highly educated engineers and chemist, shout other people down who try to politely explain that they maybe misled.
The engine was designed in 1963 as it happens, tested in 1968 and in production in 1970, if you wish to be pedantic, it does not make me think you are more intelligent so try someone else.
If you think you know better try these, may take you a little time for you to research it.

What temperature does oil [that is oil on its own] start to brake down, burn?

What does the 20 in 20w/50 mean?

What does the 50 in 20w/50 mean?

What does the W in 20/w50 relate to?

What is the best grade for cold start up performance?

What is the best grade for hot running on a BMW like yours and why?

When your car has done a few miles will you change oils or stick to the same and why?

What oil would you use on a 1981 FORD OHC engine and why?

What oil would you use in a 1984 FORD OHC engine and why?

Now go and read your little book and get back to me, see if you are MAN enough to meet the challenge. I may then consider speaking to you on my level.

Hi Guys,

Well oil and tyres are my specialist subject as they say on a certain TV programme.

What a load of rubbish, fully synthetic makes your engine leak, give up