Volvo Community Forum. The Forums of the Volvo Owners Club

Forum Rules Volvo Owners Club About VOC Volvo Gallery Links Volvo History Volvo Press
Go Back   Volvo Owners Club Forum > "Technical Topics" > PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General
Register Members CarsBlogs Help Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

Information
  • VOC Members: There is no login facility using your VOC membership number or the details from page 3 of the club magazine. You need to register in the normal way
  • AOL Customers: Make sure you check the 'Remember me' check box otherwise the AOL system may log you out during the session. This is a known issue with AOL.
  • AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net users. Forum owners such as us are finding that AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net are blocking a lot of email generated from forums. This may mean your registration activation and other emails will not get to you, or they may appear in your spam mailbox

Thread Informations

Setting Points - Why is it so difficult?

Views : 988

Replies : 34

Users Viewing This Thread :  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Apr 15th, 2018, 23:13   #1
fishyboy
Member
 

Last Online: Jul 18th, 2018 20:42
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Andover
Default Setting Points - Why is it so difficult?

Hi all,
Why do I find setting point so difficult in my 1968 1800S?

I have always found it really difficult to set the points gap accurately. It seems such a poor set up having to physically rotate the base of the points with a screwdriver. Must have had 4 or 5 separate attempts yesterday before giving up with a dwell reading of 56degrees (from a 0.015inch gap).

I have set Lucas style points with the eccentric screw many times and got it right first time. The Bosch system seems so unrefined.

Am I missing something and is there a better way to set the points gap correctly.

I am tempted to go down the electronic ignition set up (Accuspark) but have been put off due to issues of integration with the armored cable/coil set-up! Maybe its time to bight the bullet.

Phil
fishyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 00:13   #2
Pigeon
Volvo-loving biker
 
Pigeon's Avatar
 

Last Online: Jul 17th, 2018 13:57
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: All alone in the crazy city
Default

Only 4 or 5 attempts? That's jolly good It always takes me numerous iterations. It's not the method of moving the points that's the problem, it's the way they like to shift as you tighten the screw...

As regards powering an electronic ignition unit without disturbing the armoured cable... this circuit ought to work, though I haven't tested it.

30 is the live feed to the ignition switch.
54 is the switched live for everything except the coil itself.
50 is the starter control connection.
The relay is a boggo Halfords unit.
The capacitor is to keep the relay energised during any possible hiatus between it receiving a feed from 50 and a feed from 54 as the key rotates. The value 1000uF is a "safe guess". It may work with a smaller value; it may even work without it.
Diodes and capacitor can be obtained from Amazon or ebay probably more cheaply than the minimum order charge from one of the usual electronic component suppliers.
The fuse should be chosen to suit the needs of the electronic ignition module. 10A ought to be OK.
Attached Images
File Type: png ign.png (9.2 KB, 14 views)
__________________
Pigeon's Nest

Be kind to pigeons
Pigeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 01:46   #3
Ron Kwas
Premier Member
 
Ron Kwas's Avatar
 

Last Online: Yesterday 13:42
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Default

Phil;

If you are setting points (or trying to!), then you will also want to reset timing, and if you are resetting timing, you will need to loosen the timing clamp on Distributor base to allow it to turn, and if it is allowed to turn, then you can rotate it such that Rubbing block of Points is right on a Lobeshaft high-point (in other words, at max gap)... and that is precisely where you want to set your gap.

...and having made setting the gap simple, you may then proceed with Static Timing as described here: http://www.sw-em.com/Volvo%20Ignitio...tatic%20Timing

"...so difficult"...?...not at all IMO!

I suggest you try again, using technique above and you might not need to consider changing to and elec ign...

Good Hunting!
Ron Kwas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ron Kwas For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 02:10   #4
blueosprey90
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Today 06:39
Join Date: May 2017
Location: New Milford
Default

I just pull the distributor out of the car and set the points on the bench.
blueosprey90 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blueosprey90 For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 08:59   #5
swedishandgerman
Premier Member
 
swedishandgerman's Avatar
 

Last Online: Jul 16th, 2018 22:38
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: EXETER
Default

You're using a good flat screw driver in the notch to open and close the base plate, are you?

My method of doing it is to just loosen the screw enough to be able to just move the base plate, but tight enough that you can run the engine for a few seconds. That way, you can take a reading of the dwell angle and tighten it when its right.

I always set it at the lower end of the dwell angle range (59 degs). Then I periodically hook up my dwell meter to check the gap hasn't reduced giving a reading higher than 65 degs. That way, I get the full use out of a set of points and never have to re-adjust.
__________________
2006 XC70 D5 Manual
1968 Amazon Estate, B18A + Overdrive
2016 V70 D4 Manual SE Lux
1967 P1800S
swedishandgerman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to swedishandgerman For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 09:36   #6
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 01:49
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

If memory serves correctly, there's no need at all to alter the supply, even with a ballasted system, when converting to Accuspark electronic ignition.

Nothing wrong with Pigeons circuit but almost certainly not needed - check with Accuspark that they have a module suitable for a ballasted system though in case i'm speaking out of turn.

Bosch distributors are notorious for closing the points gap despite proper and careful initial setting. Don't forget a smear of high melting point grease on the cam lobes of the shaft to prevent premature wear on the points heel and once you've set the points to where they should be, check the stroboscopic timing and adjust if necessary.

If you want an unobtrusive conversion, it should be possible to find an electronic ignition set up from a later 240/early 740 with the dizzy mounted on the block (as opposed to the rear end of the camshaft) and convert it that way.

Maybe not as cheap as the Accuspark but would be Volvo branded bits throughout.
__________________
Cheers

Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Rover 827 Sterling and a 765 GLEa V6!
Laird Scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 15:28   #7
Ron Kwas
Premier Member
 
Ron Kwas's Avatar
 

Last Online: Yesterday 13:42
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Default

Dave;

"Bosch distributors are notorious for closing the points gap despite proper and careful initial setting." I can't agree...and it's the first time I've heard of that...maybe your initial setting wasn't as "proper and careful" as you thought...I got 50kMiles from one set of points as a long-term test, and I finally changed them out of guilt (and because Centrifugal Advance was frozen)!

See: http://www.sw-em.com/tuneup.htm

Cheers
Ron Kwas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ron Kwas For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 15:49   #8
heckflosse
Premier Member
 

Last Online: Jul 20th, 2018 12:42
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dereham
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
If memory serves correctly, there's no need at all to alter the supply, even with a ballasted system, when converting to Accuspark electronic ignition.

Nothing wrong with Pigeons circuit but almost certainly not needed - check with Accuspark that they have a module suitable for a ballasted system though in case i'm speaking out of turn.

Bosch distributors are notorious for closing the points gap despite proper and careful initial setting. Don't forget a smear of high melting point grease on the cam lobes of the shaft to prevent premature wear on the points heel and once you've set the points to where they should be, check the stroboscopic timing and adjust if necessary.

If you want an unobtrusive conversion, it should be possible to find an electronic ignition set up from a later 240/early 740 with the dizzy mounted on the block (as opposed to the rear end of the camshaft) and convert it that way.

Maybe not as cheap as the Accuspark but would be Volvo branded bits throughout.
I tried to swap the 240 gubbins into an Amazon distributor, without success.
A shame because it works brilliantly on the later cars.
Maybe ,if you had suitable engineering connections, it would be possible.
The Accuspark sets I've tried work well on both of our other old classics (Essex V6 and BMC C series), no doubt their Amazon one would too.
I gave up and kept it on points!
And, yes, they can be a bit fiddly, but the twiddle factor is part of running an old car.
heckflosse is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to heckflosse For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 17:45   #9
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 01:49
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Kwas View Post
Dave;

"Bosch distributors are notorious for closing the points gap despite proper and careful initial setting." I can't agree...and it's the first time I've heard of that...maybe your initial setting wasn't as "proper and careful" as you thought...I got 50kMiles from one set of points as a long-term test, and I finally changed them out of guilt (and because Centrifugal Advance was frozen)!

See: http://www.sw-em.com/tuneup.htm

Cheers
I'm speaking from my experience Ron, same as you are but i've seen countless distributors with the points securing screws chewed in a clockwise direction by owners and/or mechanics trying to ensure the gaps didn't close.

At one point in time, the contact breaker sets were sold with replacement screws all neatly packaged with them. I've also attended a high number of breakdowns where the car has become sluggish then suddenly either died or refused to start - first question is when was it last serviced? If the answer is either very recently or quite a while ago, the first point to look at (pardon the pun) is the contact breaker gap if it has a Bosch dizzy.

With the advent of initially Hall Effect and then later Motronic triggered electronic ignition and aftermarket kits, the demise of the contact breaker and condensor was inevitable.

That's why it's barely heard of today but i'm fairly sure that had the internet been around 30-40 years ago, it would have been full of posts from not just Volvo owners but owners of Vauxhall, Ford, VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW to name just half a dozen asking how to prevent their points closing up.

Despite being known as "The Price of Darkness", Lucas distributors and points never seemed to suffer this problem, it seemed to be a "Bosch thing".
__________________
Cheers

Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Rover 827 Sterling and a 765 GLEa V6!
Laird Scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16th, 2018, 19:44   #10
fishyboy
Member
 

Last Online: Jul 18th, 2018 20:42
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Andover
Default

Thanks everyone,
Clearly i am not alone having a problem setting Bosch points.

I am going to try Ron's method which sounds like a possible solution before I go down the electronic route.

Phil
fishyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fishyboy For This Useful Post:
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:00.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.