Engine 850: B5234T/2.3/20v/T5: 1996 850 T-5 - Has my timing jumped?

[Joseph Martin]

This evening I got into my T-5 to take it a drive. I haven’t used the car the past few days and felt I should take it out. As I attempted to start the car, it coughed and spluttered and then cut out, this was maybe a second at most. As I attempted to restart it, it seemed to spin over quickly. Fearing the worst, I stopped what I was doing sharply and didn’t attempt to try and start it until I’d checked the belt.

Removing the belt cover, the belt is still in one piece and seems ok in this respect, but looking at the timing marks in white, even without setting them in line with the marks on the cam cover, they don’t seem to be in sync. I’m hoping that the pic I have taken will upload on this thread, and I welcome suggestions on whether it is or isn’t likely to have jumped.

Thanks in advance.

[volvo again]

Without turning the engine over to get the marks lined up with the cam cover, you can't really tell if the belt has slipped, you also need to check that the crankshaft mark is in the right place.
Unless the belt tension is loose I think it's unlikely to have slipped.
If it has, the hydraulic tensioner may be faulty, when was the belt last changed?

My advice would be, remove plugs making it easier to rotate engine, carefully turn it over, line up the timing marks & check nothing jams. May need to remove & replace belt & tensioner.

Symptoms also sound like it may be a faulty camshaft sensor...

[V70Zig]

Many years ago I had a Cavalier that stripped the teeth off the belt resulting in fast turnover but no start...only way to tell is if you can see the lost teeth at the bottom, take the belt off to check it or and possibly not advisable.... get someone to very briefly try to start it whilst you look to see if the cams turn with the cover off.....

[Martin Cox]

I believe these are interference engines (I may however be wrong). If it had stripped teeth from the cambelt, presumably the pistons would then make contact with the valves and I wouldn't expect it to turn over at all. The fact it will still turn over is probably a good sign.

If you can turn the engine over by hand then you should be able to see if the camshafts move sensibly without much risk of doing any damage.

Martin

[oblark]

These are interference engines and if the timing slips the valves make contact with the pistons. It will still turn over by hand and on the starter motor but won't have any compression as the valves are bent and not closing. I can speak from experience as I had a timing belt jump and it wrecked the engine.

[Martin Cox]

I see. My experience is confined to the D5252t diesel engine. After the belt broke you couldn't turn it over by hand or on the starter and that was with just one bent valve.

Martin

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Joseph Martin

This evening I got into my T-5 to take it a drive. I haven’t used the car the past few days and felt I should take it out. As I attempted to start the car, it coughed and spluttered and then cut out, this was maybe a second at most. As I attempted to restart it, it seemed to spin over quickly. Fearing the worst, I stopped what I was doing sharply and didn’t attempt to try and start it until I’d checked the belt.

Removing the belt cover, the belt is still in one piece and seems ok in this respect, but looking at the timing marks in white, even without setting them in line with the marks on the cam cover, they don’t seem to be in sync. I’m hoping that the pic I have taken will upload on this thread, and I welcome suggestions on whether it is or isn’t likely to have jumped.

Thanks in advance.

Cam belts don't jump a tooth ..... the clue is you said you have not used the car for a while and the engine spins over quickly ... The hydraulic valve tappets may have drained in which case keep trying , spin it over for 15 seconds with a wait of a couple of minutes to let the starter cool try again a few times .. it will eventually fire on one or two cylinders , then pick up and fire on more , then be ok with any luck .

[Joe H]

Originally Posted by Clan

Cam belts don't jump a tooth ..... the clue is you said you have not used the car for a while and the engine spins over quickly ... The hydraulic valve tappets may have drained in which case keep trying , spin it over for 15 seconds with a wait of a couple of minutes to let the starter cool try again a few times .. it will eventually fire on one or two cylinders , then pick up and fire on more , then be ok with any luck .

Happened to me, in fact I called the AA out as the starter was cranking so quickly I was sure the belt must be snapped. Lawnmower syndrome he called it.
The strange thing is it has only happened once in 260,000 miles despite many occasions of the car being left for long periods unused or just started briefly.

Hope that is all your problem is.
Joe

[Joe H]

Adding pictures to Clan's words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3InZVPLYgqs

Joe

[DaveNP]

It is possible for a timing belt to skip a few teeth, I had it happen to me on a mk1 VW Passat, fortunately that was a 'non interference' engine so I got away with just realigning the crank and cam shafts and fitting a new belt. The cause of that was the failure of the bearing in the belt tensioner so the belt was worn and slack, maybe a special case but still possible.

Looking at Josephs picture it would seem that the timing marks on the wheels will not align with the notches on the cover at the same time. I'd be inclined to carefully turn the engine with a spanner on the crankshaft to align all of the marks and check them, given that the engine has already been turned over 'As I attempted to restart it, it seemed to spin over quickly.' turning it through a full cycle by hand shouldn't do any more damage.