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S40 02 1.8 Bi-fuel LPG issues

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Old Feb 28th, 2011, 16:29   #1
tainted
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Default S40 02 1.8 Bi-fuel LPG issues

Hi All,

I'd appriciate a bit of advice if anyone can help me out?

I've got a factory fitted 2002 S40 bi-fuel, it's been faultless in the five years I've had it until recently. It is an ex-fleet car fully dealer serviced until my ownership where I picked up the baton.

Anyway, the matter at hand....

It runs fine on petrol, when on LPG it feels like it's mis-firing between 2.2-2.5k revs, although it's more of a judder for a few seconds (in much the same way if you'd put it into too high a gear too early) and it goes away.

Typically it only happens when under load or heavy acceleration in 4th or 5th, if gently accelerated it isn't apparent at all. Otherwise it is noticeable if in second and doing a U turn on a roundabout

Initially I suspected dodgy coils, so I replaced both those and the associated HT leads to no avail. The plugs are also only six months old from the last service I did.

So, having spoken to my local Volvo dealer about it their suggestion was the gas distributor. I have two choices here:

1, Have the gas distributor tested and checked for £47, any minor problems would be fixed inclusive of this price.

2, Replace the gas distributor, a cost of £470. If I did this then the above would be free.

Now, while I've serviced my car yearly (I only do 8-9k a year) I've never changed or touched anything to do with the LPG system. I'm also unsure if the LPG system has any filters or if option 1 is anything that I could do myself.

I'm sure I'm not the only one but with budget cuts, mortgage, high maintence wife (looks over shoulder) and two kids anything I can do myself will be preferrable.

Any suggestions or advice will be greatly apprieciated.

Thanks!
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Old Feb 28th, 2011, 20:03   #2
capt jack
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Hmm. Don't assume all is well with the plugs, even if they are only 6 months old.

My LPG-converted V70 doesn't like anything but Bosch or better still Denso single point copper cored spark plugs. Luckily these are just about the cheapest available.

The symptoms that a plug change is due (anything between 5,000 and 15,000 miles) are an intermittent misfire, under load at just under 3000 rpm.

The misfire goes away under any other circumstances.

Sounds a bit similar to your problem!

Before doing anything else I'd suggest whipping out the plugs, and if they are the fancy multi-point type, bin them and fit nice cheap standard Denso ones for around £1.50 each.

Petrol is far more forgiving of minor ignition hiccups than is LPG, and in any event LPG chews up spark plugs at a greater rate than does petrol.

If that doesn't work then's the time to start thinking about more complicated and involved issues.

Cheers

Jack

PS: My guess is that your factory fit system will have a filter, and will require a pressure check. Certainly after market systems do! Rather than Volvo, have a meander through the LPGA web pages and see if there's an LPG specialist near you. They'll probably have more experience of LPG Volvos than all the main dealers combined!

Jack

Last edited by capt jack; Feb 28th, 2011 at 20:05.
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Old Feb 28th, 2011, 20:52   #3
tainted
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Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post, Jack.

Well, you've got me thinking. On the last service i bought and fitted volvo plugs. The actual ones recommended. They have three points on them. It ran awfully after that, can't say i was surprised because the plug gap was enormous!!!

After a few days i bought a new set of bosch super fours, which i had a set of prior to the service with no trouble. After these the car ran better but this issue remained.

I have heard others say multipoint plugs were a pain or noticed no benefit. They seem to rate NGK or Bosch single pointed ones, do you have any further recommendations?
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Old Feb 28th, 2011, 21:21   #4
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And can anyone recommend a plug gap?
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Old Feb 28th, 2011, 23:17   #5
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Well I've tried many different plugs in my converted V70.

The best by far in my experience are the Denso plugs as recommended for the car in their catalogue.

http://www.globaldenso.com/cgi-bin/g...&action=search

Whatever you do go for copper cored single elecrode plugs.

If you can't get Denso try Bosch superplus

Hope that helps

Cheers

Jack

PS as for gap, some folk swear by setting the gap approx .1mm less than the book - usually .8 rather than .9 for example. Worth a try!

Cheer

Jack

Last edited by capt jack; Feb 28th, 2011 at 23:26.
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Old Mar 5th, 2011, 20:14   #6
glider
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TAINTED-I've now had nearly four years running a 2003 S60 2.4 BiFuel, and had terrible problems with the engine cutting out at first when at speed and on tickover. I had a new distributor fitted at 82000 miles. Had no problems until 115000 miles when the same misfiring when accelerating appeared ( only on gas ), same as yours. I considered changing the "front end" of the gas system, i.e. all the engine compartment bits on gas, to another system, but was advised against it by the excellent LPG garage in Edinburgh, Stenhouse Motor Engineers. They sorted it by taking off the distributor for a clean. Your distributor will be similar to mine ( a Necam ). I'm in Glasgow and had trouble finding someone happy to work on the Volvo system. Don't bother with the main dealers as they won't have much LPG experience. I'd recommend finding an independent LPG garage who have worked on the Volvo system. According to Stenhouse, the Necam system is ok, it just needs a clean every so often. That might be 20K or 30K miles; depends on how clean the gas is. Gas filters should be changed every 10000 miles. Impurities do escape through them and end up in the distributor.
A word of caution: squirting injector cleaner down the gas intake pipe and leaving it there for a while , then starting up, might work in the short term, but can cause damage to the membranes inside the distributor, in the opinion of my LPG garage.
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Old Mar 5th, 2011, 21:40   #7
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I have just listed a good distributor on ebay which i took off my S60 and replaced it with a new unit from Autogas 2000. Only to find out it was burnesd valves and not the distributor in the first place. If you dont trust my second hand unit you can get them for the £280 mark from autogas 2000. I fitted mine myself in about half hour....Easy job to do
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Old Mar 5th, 2011, 22:27   #8
Clan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tainted View Post
Hi All,

I'd appriciate a bit of advice if anyone can help me out?

I've got a factory fitted 2002 S40 bi-fuel, it's been faultless in the five years I've had it until recently. It is an ex-fleet car fully dealer serviced until my ownership where I picked up the baton.

Anyway, the matter at hand....

It runs fine on petrol, when on LPG it feels like it's mis-firing between 2.2-2.5k revs, although it's more of a judder for a few seconds (in much the same way if you'd put it into too high a gear too early) and it goes away.

Typically it only happens when under load or heavy acceleration in 4th or 5th, if gently accelerated it isn't apparent at all. Otherwise it is noticeable if in second and doing a U turn on a roundabout

Initially I suspected dodgy coils, so I replaced both those and the associated HT leads to no avail. The plugs are also only six months old from the last service I did.

So, having spoken to my local Volvo dealer about it their suggestion was the gas distributor. I have two choices here:

1, Have the gas distributor tested and checked for £47, any minor problems would be fixed inclusive of this price.

2, Replace the gas distributor, a cost of £470. If I did this then the above would be free.

Now, while I've serviced my car yearly (I only do 8-9k a year) I've never changed or touched anything to do with the LPG system. I'm also unsure if the LPG system has any filters or if option 1 is anything that I could do myself.

I'm sure I'm not the only one but with budget cuts, mortgage, high maintence wife (looks over shoulder) and two kids anything I can do myself will be preferrable.

Any suggestions or advice will be greatly apprieciated.

Thanks!
Part of every volvo service on these is changing the gas filter . every 3rd service the filter in the evaporator gas inlet solenoid too...
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Old Mar 11th, 2011, 15:17   #9
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Originally Posted by Clan View Post
Part of every volvo service on these is changing the gas filter . every 3rd service the filter in the evaporator gas inlet solenoid too...
That's great info, thanks.

So where are these filters and where can I get them? My two local volvo dealers always seem to scratch their heads whenever I mention anything to do with the bi-fuel system.
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Old Mar 11th, 2011, 21:33   #10
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They cant be trying , its very clear on the appropriate parts page .

The main filter is in the thick gas pipe beween LPG distributor and Evaporator Part 9458069

The liquid gas filter is in the shut off solenoid under the air filter there is a big 24mm AF brass cap to undo but the liquid gas must be exhausted first ! by pulling the wire off the rear cut off solenoid near the tank in the rear with the engine running on LPG , the lines will empty and engine will stop , it will be safe to change that filter then ,
part 8658617
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