Volvo Community Forum. The Forums of the Volvo Owners Club

Forum Rules Volvo Owners Club About VOC Volvo Gallery Links Volvo History Volvo Press
Go Back   Volvo Owners Club Forum > "Technical Topics" > LPG, CNG & LNG - General Info and Issues

Notices

LPG, CNG & LNG - General Info and Issues Share experiences and problems

Information
  • VOC Members: There is no login facility using your VOC membership number or the details from page 3 of the club magazine. You need to register in the normal way
  • AOL Customers: Make sure you check the 'Remember me' check box otherwise the AOL system may log you out during the session. This is a known issue with AOL.
  • AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net users. Forum owners such as us are finding that AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net are blocking a lot of email generated from forums. This may mean your registration activation and other emails will not get to you, or they may appear in your spam mailbox

Thread Informations

S60 Bi-Fuel 2003 - LPG issues

Views : 6634

Replies : 31

Users Viewing This Thread :  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Nov 4th, 2016, 11:53   #11
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Mar 6th, 2024 01:34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

He is a box-shifter. He knows little. There are TWO types for Bi-fuel. Most common is Type B. Which is very pricey.
However as discussed, I sell these for £180 exchange. I would ask for £100 core charge. You have my details.

If you have read the threads, even if those from him or from Volvo were £30, you still don't want one. You want a 'modded' stepper.

I ahve six in stock.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Nov 4th, 2016 at 12:01.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8th, 2016, 21:54   #12
chrisbp
New Member
 

Last Online: Dec 29th, 2016 11:46
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Deeside
Default

Stepper has been replaced on Saturday at 10am. Unfortunately, 8pm same day car has been switched off first time. Today - too times. Now I don't know - faulty stepper or dirty distributor? Or something else?
chrisbp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8th, 2016, 21:58   #13
chrisbp
New Member
 

Last Online: Dec 29th, 2016 11:46
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Deeside
Default

Stepper has been replaced on Saturday at 10am. Unfortunately, car has been switched off first time at 8pm same day. Next - today, two times. Faulty stepper or dirty distributor? I have completely no ideas...
chrisbp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14th, 2016, 10:46   #14
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Mar 6th, 2024 01:34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

I strongly suggest you do soem research on this forum. This will have you asking hte correct questions rather than the wrong ones. Read pricipally my posts about cleaning, my mods, fitting filters etc etc.

Also understand how to lift the stepper and the dangers of losing inner springs and ball-berign and spacer spring washers, using PTFE etc etc.

Else you will be wasting time and money, and will come crying. You will also mash my supplied stepper. I have a reputation on this forum for supplying good information and decent parts to correct issues. I offer you the lowest priced solution however it is based on certain assumptions.

If you've not read-up, I would not be happy to supply you, 'cos it'll end in tears for which I will take the flak. Thank you for yoru understanding. Now do the work, else have a pro do the whole job. But you'll not get that for £180, and likely because he'll be getting more suspect parts, (without my mods) you'll not have a permanent solution.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21st, 2016, 00:23   #15
chrisbp
New Member
 

Last Online: Dec 29th, 2016 11:46
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Deeside
Default

Thanks for CNGBiFuel.
I bought one necam stepper from him. Worked well all last week which is REALLY BIG correction. Good feedback :-)
chrisbp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21st, 2016, 10:45   #16
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Mar 6th, 2024 01:34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

Thank you for that. Keep it clean, follow all my install advice as sent in with your stepper and you'll not be dealing with steppers or putting you hard-earned my way again.

Hang on, methinks shut-up. Why, oh why, am I saying this? I'll take your money all day long.

Kinda guy I am

[Your first core tests good, you sent x 2, at least one core deposit coming your way] Let you know on the other soon.

All my steppers get run-up in my own car for extended periods. That way, , before you see them, I'm sure they work and stay working. That particular stepper was in my car for a good 4000 miles. Sorry about eBay costs, they take £45.00 in fees via Paypal or selling fees. Come to my door next time - cheaper, quicker and no core charge.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Dec 21st, 2016 at 10:51.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd, 2017, 18:12   #17
glider
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Jun 23rd, 2018 20:30
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: glasgow
Smile

My car is also a 2003 BiFuel, now with 164K miles, and on its third stepper motor in 9 years. The present one I just had supplied from CNG BiFuel, and the usual engine cutout problem which recently started has gone. Having followed these threads now for some time, I'm happy to recommend CNG's modified stepper motor. The first time I had the stepper replaced, I was told by an independent lpg garage that they only last a few years, and he was right. I'm grateful to CNG for taking the time to look into this problem.
glider is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glider For This Useful Post:
Old Jan 5th, 2017, 12:25   #18
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Mar 6th, 2024 01:34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default The Volvo Necam Stepper Motor (Type B

I have contacted the forum Admins and had no reply.
I assume they do not see my as a trader per se. I sell these for less on here than on eBay simply because eBay charge me £40 odd per sale.
I'm pleased the admins took my suggestion to change the title of this section to include CNG LNG etc. After all Volvo can claim all credit, Volvo WERE the volume manufacturer PIONEERS in this technology.

Glider only - Thank you glider. I understand you had rough running at 3000ish rpm too, this would not be a stepper issue, please ring me if this side of the car has not been sorted. I strongly suspect 1-2 dicky coil-packs (a known issue) or tired, silly snake-oil LPG or multipoint plugs, or a combination of these. I owe you a core deposit. You will see this in the next day or so.

For the rest of you...


Necam (Necam now known as Koltec) Volvo Type B Stepper Motor



If your Bifuel randomly cuts out...
It is highly likely it is the stepper motor. A known issue. Whereas, initial starting issues (from COLD) or rough running, would indicate problems with your regulator and/or distributor, starting issues HOT, after cutting out, would more often be your stepper.

HIGHLY UNLIKELY YOU NEED A WHOLE DISTRIBUTOR.
This is a myth put out by Volvo because they sell boxes, and had no clue about the real issues and selling the complete assembly (@£8-900+) got rid of customers for another 25,000 miles. At main dlealer level Volvo know little. See your local LPG specialist. Back in the day, Volvo often subb'ed these jobs out to them. Event the specialists would swap the dizzy in blind hope.

Quote:
The first time I had the stepper replaced, I was told by an independent lpg garage that they only last a few years, and he was right
Without my mod this is correct.

Replacement of stepper, and cleaning is a DIY task, I detail at the foot of this page, how to change your stepper. Unless you have well on 200K+ miles you will not need a new distributor. Even then, kept soaked in GT85, and clean they cope.

I recondition these and correct the ongoing fault with Necam Stepper motors.
I correct the Triac issue, Necam are well aware of this problem, however for clear reasons they don't fix it.
I've had owners come to me on their second and third distributor / stepper. Young 'glider' here, is I'm afraid, typical. This mod fixes the problems with Volvo BiFuels permanently.

Also as part of this service I offer you my wealth of experience to fault-find your Volvo and prevent recurring issues. Very simple and reliable, the Necam system is maligned simply because few understand them.

My steppers after modding fit CNG & LPG Necam distributors fitted to Volvo S70 V70 S60 S80 with the flat top stepper motor . There are two types of stepper motor by Necam. Not to be confused. This is the Volvo specific model. Often called a Type B.

See Red Cross indicated pic. Shown by red cross, is the non-Volvo Type A, you will not receive a Type A. Type B has a flat top.


My steppers and my support.
Either way, you have my experience in solenoid set-up, regulator management , what to clean, what to replace and general fault-finding of your Necam system. 15 mins of my time if you collect, and up to three phone calls of my time if you need to call me. I will walk you thru' fixing your Volvo Bifuel. My knowledge is such that you will be able to fix your LPG/CNG Volvo.

Outside of Necam, I have a greater understanding of these systems than any in Europe. Other sellers are box-shifters, and/or whole-unit-swappers.


Changing your stepper motor.

On post 2000 models, the Necam stepper got moved from a simple to get at place on the bulkhead on pre 2000 to between the radiator and the block.

One for grazed knuckles this...

On 2001-2005 era S80 S60 V70s, with the car running on gas disconnect the solenoid cable under the air box to purge the system of gas. Reconnect before you forget.

Disconnect battery. The distributor is close to some chunky cables that can supply lots of amps if you put a spanner in the wrong place!

Clamp the lower power-steering hose near the pump and disconnect the top hose and move out of the way. (Don't get oil in the alternator) Unbolt the dip stick pipe (10mm socket]. You don't have to remove it but it's easier if you do. Remove the pipes and cables and undo the 2 nuts on the distributor / engine bracket / rubber mount. Careful here, the rubber might be perished. If you do shear the rubber mount, Demon Tweeks Part No. FSEFPA905 - Facet Fuel Pump Mount x 2 will fit). Leaving the bracket on the distributor might be easiest. Remove; some jiggling required. Knuckles will be in fine order about now. Do not smoke!

Make sure the outside of the stepper motor is clean, if you get dirt into the distributor on removal of the stepper, the bill is some £400.

Remove 2 x 3mm Allen bolts and remove stepper motor. Careful here. Two reasons, 1) Shaft of stepper easily bent. I won't want it back if you bend it. 2) A large spring washer about the size of a 2p bit, a large compression-spring, and if you’re unlucky a ball-bearing will fly about. Watch yourself.

Unclip piston from spring on motor’s piston/plunger-tip (note which way up piston goes - deeper side away from stepper to accomodate large compression-spring). Remove clip-spring on old motor plunger-tip and assemble on new motor. Watch for the O-ring sitting on the neck of the stepper (usually Brown in colour).

The stepper was likely fried because of dirt loading the motor, the distributor probably needs the slots cleaning, these are not easily seen but are down the distributor barrel. Pour some Wynns/Comma injector-cleaner (Wynns because it’s the same stuff and cheaper than STP) into the distributor. Fill to 5-10mm from top. Put a large coin, (2p piece is good) over the opening and let it soak 3-4 hours or overnight. 2p is there to stop dirt and injector-cleaner evaporating.

On P1 pre 2000 cars getting the motor off is quicker, this makes it easy enough to start the car running petrol and when it flips to LPG/CNG and floods, let it stall on the injection cleaner. Reattempt starting and the injector cleaner will clear. Drive 20-30 miles to let cleaner clear and pull the stepper off again and lubricate piston with GT85 PTFE. Do not use WD40 or any other lubricant containing silicon. You risk contamination of your Lambda o2 sensors.

Because firing the car up on P2 models is not so simple at this point I suggest a Turkey baster to syphon out the excess Injector cleaner. Then GT85 PTFE spray the piston, making sure the injector cleaner does no dilute the PTFE. If you're that keen, do this in 20-30 miles as you would a P1.

Make sure pistons etc is spotlessly clean before reassembly. Don't bend the motor sliding the piston in. Expensive if you do.

Put it back together and check for leaks.


TWO WARNINGS
1) LPG is dirty, dirty stuff which produces heavy-ends to clog your distributor and thus fry your stepper motor. Applies to CNG to a lesser extent.

Getting to the stepper motor and soaking with a 2p cap is best, but pouring injector cleaner down the low-pressure pipe from the regulator is fair substitute. it will certainly make for better running and keep the stepper from overloading, hence frying.

Fire injector cleaner in there and let it soak every 6-10,000 miles. I do mine at 5,000 (earlier vehicle so easy to do]. Fail to do this, and if the erratic supply (or last year nil supply) and high prices are anything to go by, next time you won't be able to source its replacement, let alone, easily or cheaply. Volvo stopped selling cars with this stepper motor eleven years ago, and didn't sell vast numbers then. How long can it be before this part is declared obsolete at any price?

2) Some are not fitted with a filter between the regulator and the distributor. These are £4.00 (£90.00 from Volvo). Fit one. Check this, if I recall -16mm.

There is a design flaw within the stepper that means that they will often go wayward. This I fix for you, better than new. Follow my advice and I can assure you, Volvo Bifuels are very decent vehicles, which with clean fluids, will do mad mileages. Thye'll not crumble away before your very eyes, unlike a Merc (and some Beemers) of the same vintage.

There's a few more known issues that appear on these vehicles at around 90-140,000.
Those that spring to mind are PCV, cambelt, an auto gearbox flush, heater core and ETM (on 1999-2000 MY) - all DIY jobs. Flush your autobox tomorrow if you own a 2001-2003. Attend to them and you'lll see another 100,000 miles before they need doing again. Hence you own one of the cheaper cars to run on the road today.

Read diagnosis carefully. To repeat:
If from COLD the car runs sweet and even, your regulator and distributor are likely OK. When HOT or COLD if running rough you have either:

1) A coil pack going. A known issue at 90,000 miles and over. Easy to swap.
2) Plugs getting tired or set over 0.7mm. Leave snake oil multi-point and LPG plugs alone. Good quality single point Denso or NGK are best, and far cheaper. Low-spec plugs changed often is better.
3) Dirt in distributor. This will cause lumpy running, poor starting or poor changeover. Clogged, your distributor gives your stepper motor more work to do. So likely frying it, Hence as the car gets warmer you see more cutting out. Cutting out is almost always the stepper. Which is why you are reading this.

The problem comes when you have a combination of clogged distributor, worn plugs/coil packs, these will all show lumpy running or poor starting. The stepper motor will be causing the cutting out. No amount of cleaning / plugs etc etc will help you if the distributor has got dirty enough to damage the stepper and cause cutting out.

Many of you have seen stepper motor issues before. You’ll recognise the symptoms. More Tech support when you buy. I can help with distributor/regulator set-up and ECU issues. My unit fits your car if your stepper has a plain flat top. The two types are not compatible. Flat top is Volvo only.

In short, poor starting HOT or COLD is unlikely to be your stepper motor, injector cleaner used at intervals will sort most issues, if not, (assuming you've decent plugs and coil-packs] regulator and solenoid issues is where I'd be looking next. However... random cutting-out? No amount of cleaning will have you escape this, this si a battle you will lose, you need this stepper to win- remember to clean as above before you install. Do this and a few other DIY tasks and your car is good for 300,000+ miles. I do 45-60,000 a year (55,000 last year) in mine.
All stepper sold after rewoking get a stint in my own car for a minimum of 800 miles to be sure your stepper works under all conditions.

Follow the guide I provide with your stepper to the letter (especially about periodic cleaning) and these steppers will not trouble you again. Ignore it and sob into your beer

Good luck
Attached Images
File Type: png Not this one! Volvo Type A Necam Steppers.png (53.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg VolvoType B Necam Steppers.jpg (75.1 KB, 15 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Jan 5th, 2017 at 13:59.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CNGBiFuel For This Useful Post:
Old Feb 9th, 2017, 14:42   #19
Russki
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 27th, 2023 17:57
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Gloucester
Default

Hello everyone!


I have been referred to this forum by CNGbifuel. I don't know if I should start a new thread as I will just mark it the same with the same car and almost the same problem.

Mine don't go to lpg while its cold (just die on a changeover). It goes to LPG while it is warmed up and stationery without any problem and could work for some time, if you start to drive the car is shakes and die shortly. If i press accelerator to the ground it stops but works with great struggle and misfires a lot while slowing down to completely stationery. After reading CNGBifuel's write up I concluded that its not a stepper problem, but something different. I saw a vacuum pipe rubber thing to be split. Yesterday after changing vacuum pipe and the one that goes to vapour filter, after setting the gap on spark plugs to 0,7 problem still there, but I was able to drive LPG on warmed up engine for quite a while now. It is an improvement but not a fix. Now when on lpg it drives normal only on fully warmed up engine until it start behaving like a petrol engine with a faulty fuel pump: it shakes and chokes etc.

After a couple of misfires a weird message appeared asking me to slow down or shift up. Later I found out that ignition coil is dead now.

Does anyone knows how to bleed the whole system of LPG? I tried to remove main line that goes from the tank, but it still full of liquid LPG despite removing the negative from the battery.

What is the type of filter that is sitting beside the solenoid on the main line that goes to the vaporiser?

I do apologise for the write up as English is not my native language and yesterdays vodka still not helping to remember how to write properly.

Any advice is much appreciated!
Russki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10th, 2017, 03:11   #20
Russki
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 27th, 2023 17:57
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Gloucester
Default

Good news everyone! I changed that ignition coil and it made no difference to the LPG neither it was expected. I drove today to Bristol which is about half an hour drive and tried to push that "petrol" button to make the car run on LPG. First time I drove exactly one mile on LPG going 70mph before it start to lose power and I clicked it back to petrol. Second time I did 10 miles before it started to lose power again and yet again I switched it manually to petrol. When I approached m32 roundabout I switched it back to LPG and drove all 5 miles of m32 without any issues. After a quick drive in Bristol I went to Yate using LPG without any problems again. In Yate, where I work, I went to the car to check it out after 5 hours. It started on petrol but stalled when it decided that its time to go to LPG now. After another 4 hours I tried again and yet again it stalled. Then I drove on petrol to m32 again(about 10 miles) and clicked it to LPG. It did and I drove without any issues to Bristol and then back to Gloucester without ANY issues. When I stoped a car and waited for about 5 min I tried it again and again it went to LPG with slight drop in rpm for a second and then continue to idle on LPG.

After all this I think that the problem with my car is nothing to be connected with dreaded stepper motor issue (BIG thank you CNGBifuel for your VERY informative write up). I am thinking that all gunk that is inside of the evaporator unit becomes solid as the car is getting cold and then prevent diaphragms to do its job, but when the car worms up it becomes more flexible and it works as it expected. I will try to rebuild that evaporator unit as soon as the repair kit will be delivered.

WHERE I can buy a manometer in this country? It seems almost impossible to find one that will not cost a fortune....
Russki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:59.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.