C70: Cabriolet Roof Will Not Open

[ASt85]

I have a 2004 reg but 2005 Model C70 2.0T, the rag top roof was last open and folded down and subsequently closed around a month ago without problem or alarm sounds.

Yesterday as the front nearside/passenger window was moved from the fully open to the fully closed position there was a loud bang and a shudder sort of wack felt through the frame, not unlike the feel and sound of a suspension spring letting go or another car hitting a door mirror at speed.

The N/S window had fully closed and appears(ed) to be correctly seated at the time of the bang.

I'm not sure but I think it might have been the electric window winder/cable giving up the ghost - I'm sure I've read somewhere on the forum that there can be problems with the cables, motors and causing poor calibration after a flat battery.

Whilst the battery hasn't gone flat in the last six months or so, the windows have been slow to close of late which I put down to the gunge that accumulates over the winter, dry window seals, or perhaps poor calibration.

Today the N/S window would neither open or close, there was no response to the dash switch to open the roof; neither was there any switch response to the front interior light switch yet the both door red warning lamps illuminate as does the boot interior lamp. I've got a feeling that if a window won't drop then the roof will not open by default as a safety measure.

However, the car was not on the level: again, I don't know if the roof will operate if the car isn't on the level or nearly so - our drive is not level. It has an approx 30° downward slope and the C70 is at an angle across that slope.

Should it open when the switch is pressed or will opening be prevented as the car is not level?

I haven't as yet broken out the VIDA and Dice as I'm aware that many roof issues are in the "specialist" domain and are not listed or covered by Vida/Dice. From what I've read to date UK Volvo dealers frequently outsource roof problems for solution.

As yet I've not checked fuses, relays or had the door card off.

Whilst I am fairly certain this is a window related problem, if anyone can suggest what fault(s) I might or should be looking for from their experience I would really appreciate it or indeed any telling roof (canvas roof) related fault codes.

[christheancient]

I feel sorry that you seem to be getting little response. So, no, you're not being ignored - well by me, at least!

Not that it's any help; but when I had my 'rag-top' I had a problem that, one day, it didn't shut properly. And I didn't have the manual tools (didn't come with the car when I bought it 2nd-hand!)

So very gently (i.e. slowly) drove to my local indy (fortunately not far up the road) with rapidly freezing fingers poking above the windscreen desperately trying to prevent the wind ripping the roof off.

I get on well with my local indy and he allowed me to watch him sort it out. I was absolutely gob-smacked at seeing all the bits and pieces that are involved in the roof operation. Never in a million years (well, a long time then) could I imagine anybody trying to work/sort out a problem without VIDA/VADIS as there are just so many hidden parts involved.

I can't remember now what the problem was; but it took quite a while for the two of us to sort it (well, he sorted and I watched!) and a spare (don't ask) control module. But I was avidly watching the computer screen to see what the whole caboodle was doing. My brain exploded!

As I said at the top. No real answers - more a question of lots of sympathy!

[ITSv40]

As above ^^^^^^. Not ignoring the OP, just do not have any worthwhile suggestions. I think only Vadis/Vida would be the only way of finding the problem.

[ASt85]

My thanks to both christheancient and ITSv40 for your reassurance.

I've so far checked fuses and relays but can't identify any obvious failure electrical failure.

However, I did try lowering and raising the windows one by one and discovered that all worked well apart from the passenger side front window which literally crept down about 4 inches and wouldn't go back up. I could only get it back by pulling on the top of the window as I pressed the n/s window winder switch with the dooor open. I'm convinced the bang was a winder failing, I was just hoping that I wasn't going to have to get to grips wit it just yet. The last winder I played with was the passenger side window in my son's Eunos/MX5...what a PITA, so much narrower doors than the Volvo.

As all the fuses are OK, it would seem to me that the winding mechanism is at fault. From what I've read on the forum and elsewhere, if the control module detects a window fault it will not allow the window to be dropped which in turn causes a canbus "no" signal which prevents the hood from being opened or closed. The car is still at downward angle across the drive so that may too be causing the "no" state to be sent.

When time permits, I think it is a case of taking the door card off and finding just what has happened to the winding mechanism, again reading around suggests they are something of a weak point if not correctly calibrated. Our local Volvo main dealer tells me that they can re-calibrate the roof & windows, but I assume that the cost will become astronomic if it needs new micro-switches or a control module.

Given the car's history, or lack thereof, I doubt whether it was ever re-calibrated prior to me buying it 2 years ago. Whilst it is a one previous owner car with only 41k miles on the clock, if regular hood maintenance hadn't been done then a simple lack of grease could be adding to the problem.

I've added less than 100 miles to the mileage and only had the hood down twice in the last year so that too may be contributing to the problem. I had intended to do some greasing with the aid of online videos and tightening up with bungees when the weather had improved.

From what I've read, I should be able to lower and raise the roof manually, using a drill to reduce the effort, which will enable me to track down other problem once I can see the micro-switches.

Once again my thanks for your support. When I do finally get to grips with it /sorted I'll report back.

[ITSv40]

Just one thing to add. Parking on a slope does not affect the roof operation. However, if parked say, with one wheel up on the kerb so that the body shell is twisted the roof will not operate as the mechanism will jam.

[ASt85]

Originally Posted by ITSv40

Just one thing to add. Parking on a slope does not affect the roof operation. However, if parked say, with one wheel up on the kerb so that the body shell is twisted the roof will not operate as the mechanism will jam.

That could be something to do with the lack of movement, at the moment the car is facing down at least a 35° bevelled slope and is at an angle across it so that none of the wheels are on the same level which might mean there is some body twist going on - don't ask......I think the paving company had a twisted spirit level as the original lawn & concrete drive gradient was a constant 15° slope across the plot and a constant 30° towards the house ;-) even the V70s sit off level with all the wheels akimbo as the suspension tries to keep the decks level! So it is a bit like parking on an egg shaped section. The only positive being the drainage is good.....well at least until it rains

Thanks again ITSv40.

Cheers
Alan

[Luxobarge]

Originally Posted by ASt85

As all the fuses are OK, it would seem to me that the winding mechanism is at fault. From what I've read on the forum and elsewhere, if the control module detects a window fault it will not allow the window to be dropped which in turn causes a canbus "no" signal which prevents the hood from being opened or closed. The car is still at downward angle across the drive so that may too be causing the "no" state to be sent.
.

I'd say you're spot on there, it certainly seems to me that you should indeed bite the bullet and get that door card off, see what's what and fix the window lowering issue. Only when that is back working properly will you know if you really do have a roof problem, you may well find that all is well once that window is fixed.

[christheancient]

Reading through, again, I also suspect that the passenger window 'sticking' might play a part in the problem because that raising/lowering of windows plays a vital part of the operating sequence (for obvious reasons).

I think I remember that the passenger window it mine started getting a bit 'iffy' once - through lack of use(?); so I cycled it with the window switch a few times and that did ease its operation a bit.

But whether it got bad enough to affect the roof cycle, I can't be sure. But it sure looks like a plug into VADIS is needed to be certain of anything. I was lucky with my checks because i got on well with my indy (and he got all of my work as when it comes to fixing cars, I'm a "passion fingers" in that all I touch, I f**k!)

[ASt85]

Originally Posted by Luxobarge

I'd say you're spot on there, it certainly seems to me that you should indeed bite the bullet and get that door card off, see what's what and fix the window lowering issue. Only when that is back working properly will you know if you really do have a roof problem, you may well find that all is well once that window is fixed.

Agreed

Unfortunately it is probably going to be more than a few days probably at least 2 weeks or so before I can get round to it. Looking on the bright side additional research might throw up other possible faults, who knows?

Some of the window/roof faults might actually be identified using the VIDA + DiCE unit (thanks cheshired5)

It is perfectly driveable as it is, just as long as I don't try to open the dodgy window or the roof.....looking at the long range forecast I'll probably need a thermal fleece driving the C70 anyway.

[ITSv40]

I concur with Luxobarge, re the window. That could be the one and only issue. Hope you get it sorted soon with minimum hassle.