Safety - Real or Psychological?

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by stephend

What would be the point, though? If it was played for laughs, then yes, or if they had some kind of Volvo-bashing agenda - but if it was some kind of put-up job, it would seem to be a rather pointless one...

Merely being amateurish and unscientific (or at least, not scientifically motivated) renders it simply irrelevant to me.

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by Bill_56

My take is, in a car to car collision, the larger heavier vehicle will always be the safer place, almost regardless of crash testing, and regardless of its own crumple zones. The reason is that the smaller, lighter, car will provide you with a very generous crumple zone (by crumpling).

If everything else were equal that would be a good case, but all cars are not equal and newer cars use much more sophisticated design.

If we follow the argument that big and heavy beats small and light can I come and hit your big car with my little hammer? I'm confident my little hammer will suffer practically no damage but your panels will look a bit sorry.

In an extreme case such as 40tonne truck versus a car then the crumple zones etc are going to be of limited effectiveness, but that is a 20 to 1 fight, when we consider big car versus small car the odds get more like 2 to 1 so a bit of design can make a difference. As I recall the video of the big old car versus small new car that I saw, the problem is that the old car allowed the force of the impact to enter the passenger cell while the new car design deflected the force. Instinctively we want to see the car remain in one piece with little deformation but that means the force of the impact is felt by the people in the car, if we think of modern formula 1 cars they seem to disintegrate at the drop of a hat but the drivers walks away, all the force of the impact is dissipated in the destruction of the car.
Ultimately I suppose the best place to be is in a big modern car.

[oragex]

Rule of thumb: the more recent, the safer.

A few facts:

The steel strength used in cars has increased significantly in recent years.

More airbags does not mean more safe. What matters is how solid the steel structure is and how well the airbags deploy.

Not all car makers have the same engineering goals when it comes to design safety devices. I remember a video of a Honda Pilot where the car did very well in the crash test, but the airbag did deploy too late and hit the dummy with a potential lethal force. Also, there was a recent C-series Mercedes that had the same issue. As you can see, it's not enough to have an airbag, it also has to work properly.

Volvo seems to be more careful with airbags quality and design.

As for the steel structure, most car makers design their cars to withstand only the crash impact from the standard government/insurance company crash tests. But those tests are limited in force, and don't represent many real life situations. Because of this, as a general rule, in a smaller car crash against a larger car, the smallest will always be less safe. The new Vw Golf seems to have a much higher impact resistance that it's similar competitors.

Finally, have a look at the recent BMW 7-series crash tests. It's impressive. BMW decided to make this car very strong. Despite it's high mass, the car shows very little deformation against a fixed barrier.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by DaveNP

Ultimately I suppose the best place to be is in a big modern car.

Everyone must buy a new XC90 (due out soon!!)

Regards

[john.wigley]

Thank you one and all for your considered responses. It is interesting to read the diverse views expressed. The consensus appears to be that the larger and newer the car the safer it will be. However, as I can't afford a new XC90 I'll just have to stick with my trusty 745 - sans airbags, ABS and all the rest!

Regards, John.

[DaveNP]

Dare one also point out that the most important safety device in the car is the driver?

[oragex]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Thank you one and all for your considered responses. It is interesting to read the diverse views expressed. The consensus appears to be that the larger and newer the car the safer it will be. However, as I can't afford a new XC90 I'll just have to stick with my trusty 745 - sans airbags, ABS and all the rest!

Regards, John.

Not sure if a full safety cage is street legal in England, but it would be a good option in order to feel safe in an older car, and not that expensive.

[capt jack]

The one key component that directly affects the safety of any car is the big nut that holds the steering wheel.

Have been supervising my learner-driver daughters recently, and the experience has certainly highlighted for me not only the downright dangerous antics of some road users, but also my own sloppiness and bad habits.

Was chatting with the telesales chap at Aviva this week, as I'm in the throes of renewing the car insurance. This very topic came up, and his comment was that the insurance costs are lowest for newer cars, with more safety features and smaller engines, and that this is broadly reflected in insurance groups - and premiums.

So I guess you could surmise that from an insurer's point of view, the 'safest' cars are not necessarily the bigger, more powerful or 'old-school heavies'.

Jack

[john.wigley]

Thank you 'DaveNP' and 'capt jack'. You are, of course, both correct regarding the role of the driver in safety. Wanting to improve my skills, I did the IAM back in '78 and have always endeavoured to drive appropriately. I know I'm overdue for a re-assessment, but would undertake that with considerable trepidation as to the outcome after over 30 years!

Regarding insurance - I must confess I've never fully understood how this works. I got a renewal quote on my 745 recently from my then current insurer of over £250. Using a well-known comparison web-site, I obtained a basically similar policy for £140. This for the wife and I to drive, fully comp, protected NCD and class 1 business use. Linda pays a like premium for similar cover on her '96 Saab 9000 3.0 V6.

It seems to me that the days when loyalty to an insurance provider combined with a good driving record were rewarded are now sadly no more!