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3rd brake light - MOT failure?

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Old Oct 19th, 2018, 10:04   #1
thefifeflier
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Default 3rd brake light - MOT failure?

On my car's annual service last week, I was told that 2 or 3 of the LEDs in my high-level 3rd brake light were blown, and that the unit would have to be replaced at a cost of £150 as it was an MOT failure.

Not entirely convinced, I said I'll wait until the MOT was due, to do something about it; when I got home I looked into a bit further on the Interweb. Firstly, I found I can get a replacement fitting from the States for $32, and secondly I found this website which may prove quite handy for future reference:

http://www.ukmot.com/Your-MOT-Questions/Brake-Lights

So according to this website, 50% (at least I'm assuming it's 50%, as the % sign was omitted) of the lights in the 3rd brake light must be working for it to pass. However, I'm sure I read somewhere else that it only needs one bulb to be working in order to pass!

Any thoughts, folks?
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Old Oct 19th, 2018, 10:51   #2
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Arguably unless it says differently then with only one working it is working.

Some years ago I was talking to a MOT tester who was very upset. He had failed a XJ6 because when he operated the screen washers only a few drops of water hit the screen and then nothing. The guy who owned the car, rather than getting it sorted and a fee retest, complained to the inspectorate which resulted in a phone call to the tester who, when he confirmed that some water had gone on to the screen, was instructed to pass the car.

You could try the same logic if yours fails.
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Old Oct 19th, 2018, 10:55   #3
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Originally Posted by thefifeflier View Post
On my car's annual service last week, I was told that 2 or 3 of the LEDs in my high-level 3rd brake light were blown, and that the unit would have to be replaced at a cost of £150 as it was an MOT failure.

Not entirely convinced, I said I'll wait until the MOT was due, to do something about it; when I got home I looked into a bit further on the Interweb. Firstly, I found I can get a replacement fitting from the States for $32, and secondly I found this website which may prove quite handy for future reference:

http://www.ukmot.com/Your-MOT-Questions/Brake-Lights

So according to this website, 50% (at least I'm assuming it's 50%, as the % sign was omitted) of the lights in the 3rd brake light must be working for it to pass. However, I'm sure I read somewhere else that it only needs one bulb to be working in order to pass!

Any thoughts, folks?
That web site you list is an absolute waste of time , It is just hearsay , It is just someone's personal interpretation of what the MOT tester's Manual says .

The Bible which everyone must go by is the MOT Tester's Manual itself

Quoted from the tester's manual :

"Additional stop lamps, over and above the obligatory requirements, must be tested. However, if there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given."

That is all it says ...so there you go , easy , disconnect it or take it off and it will pass …
however get it working because it acts as a backup if the main stop lights fail , it uses a completely different circuit for safety reasons .

I might be able to find you a centre LED light for a 2000 - 2007 V70 , if that is what you have, PM me . These NEVER fail ,
I suspect you may the later model though .
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Old Oct 20th, 2018, 09:34   #4
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As has been said if a stop lamp is fitted - it’s testable. Additional lamps may be excluded in they aren’t wired up but anything fitted at the factory should be tested, if you disconnect it then technically it should pass but you would have to leave evidence visible to the tester that you have disconnected it. nearly all post 1996 cars have a 3rd brake light. Volvo started fitting them much earlier - my 1989 440 had one.

Where the brake light has “multiple sources” (e.g. led matrix), upto 1/2 of those sources not working is a minor defect (I.e. advisory under the old system). More than 1/2 not working is a major defect I.e. fail.

This is documented in section 4.3.1 of the latest MOT tester manual, I think clan is thinking where there are multiple brake lights in a single light cluster. If you read all the website pages, it contradicts itself several times on this topic...
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Old Oct 20th, 2018, 10:53   #5
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Originally Posted by Clan View Post
That web site you list is an absolute waste of time , It is just hearsay , It is just someone's personal interpretation of what the MOT tester's Manual says .

The Bible which everyone must go by is the MOT Tester's Manual itself

Quoted from the tester's manual :

"Additional stop lamps, over and above the obligatory requirements, must be tested. However, if there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given."

That is all it says ...so there you go , easy , disconnect it or take it off and it will pass …
however get it working because it acts as a backup if the main stop lights fail , it uses a completely different circuit for safety reasons .

I might be able to find you a centre LED light for a 2000 - 2007 V70 , if that is what you have, PM me . These NEVER fail ,
I suspect you may the later model though .
Thanks, I did try to identify whether this was a bona fide website or not, but couldn't see anything to indicate its authenticity or otherwise. However, it does pretty much agree with what you quoted me from the official Testers' Manual. Is that available to view online?

But regarding my own situation, the car is a 2014 XC60 and I'm disappointed that the LEDs are starting to pop already, given that they are supposed to have a reputation for extra-longevity. They also don't seem to be individually replaceable which is doubly annoying - I hate waste!

Regarding your comment about it working or not - it is still mostly working; only 2 or 3 of the LEDs are out, leaving somewhere between 5 and 7 till working. Anyway, I'm not prepared to replace it at this stage unless it turns out it's a stoppable offence, which I'm beginning to doubt it is! Thanks for your offer of a V70 rear light but I don't think it'd be any good really.

I've started taking the car to an independent Volvo garage in Glasgow (Voltech) for non-service items and MOTs; they seem to be more trustworthy than the dealership, so I'll get their opinion come MOT time.
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Old Oct 20th, 2018, 11:00   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifeflier View Post
Thanks, I did try to identify whether this was a bona fide website or not, but couldn't see anything to indicate its authenticity or otherwise. However, it does pretty much agree with what you quoted me from the official Testers' Manual. Is that available to view online?

But regarding my own situation, the car is a 2014 XC60 and I'm disappointed that the LEDs are starting to pop already, given that they are supposed to have a reputation for extra-longevity. They also don't seem to be individually replaceable which is doubly annoying - I hate waste!

Regarding your comment about it working or not - it is still mostly working; only 2 or 3 of the LEDs are out, leaving somewhere between 5 and 7 till working. Anyway, I'm not prepared to replace it at this stage unless it turns out it's a stoppable offence, which I'm beginning to doubt it is! Thanks for your offer of a V70 rear light but I don't think it'd be any good really.

I've started taking the car to an independent Volvo garage in Glasgow (Voltech) for non-service items and MOTs; they seem to be more trustworthy than the dealership, so I'll get their opinion come MOT time.
You can read the MOT test manual on the government website here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...and-7-vehicles

As you have described it - you car will pass as less than one half of the LED's has failed - at least 50% need to be working for it to pass - but it should be recorded as a minor defect.

The site you linked to contradicts itself on the above topic so I would agree with Clan's comments that whilst it may be operated with all good intentions, it's not definitive or reliable.

I expect if you took your original cluster apart, you would fine dry solder joints rather than failed LED. You should be able to secure a good one second hand quite easily - as has been said they are normally taken for granted.

If it was your local main dealer that told you that your rear brake light would fail the MOT as 3 out of 10 LEDs have failed - you should notify the Aftersales Manager as someone needs re-training...
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Last edited by Tannaton; Oct 20th, 2018 at 11:03.
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Old Oct 20th, 2018, 17:04   #7
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ive came across this before and asked the question as long as 50% is working then its okay

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Old Nov 5th, 2018, 14:28   #8
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I've got a couple of LED's out in my high level brake light and it has been MOT'd successfully with them like that, it didn't even get a mention on the certificate.

It sounds like the usual main dealer scare tactics.

I still haven't had my discs and pads changed, nearly two years after they told me they needed doing urgently, they are just about ready for it now though.
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