Electric cars and the 240 future avlues.

[Laney760]

Not sure if this 240 electric conversion has been posted on here, can't find the name of the guy who converted it on a forum search, Martijn Hendriks. Article is dated Jan 21 2021 so probably not posted on here.

My 940 is getting older and I am sometimes getting a bit fed up with running an older more computerised engine and I was thinking about going back to a 240 for my next car and then thinking about getting one converted to electric which is how I found this article.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/01/21...-volvo-240-gl/

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laney760

Not sure if this 240 electric conversion has been posted on here, can't find the name of the guy who converted it on a forum search, Martijn Hendriks. Article is dated Jan 21 2021 so probably not posted on here.

My 940 is getting older and I am sometimes getting a bit fed up with running an older more computerised engine and I was thinking about going back to a 240 for my next car and then thinking about getting one converted to electric which is how I found this article.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/01/21...-volvo-240-gl/

I did a bit of a thought experiment regarding converting the Royal Barge to electric last summer - and eventually dismissed it out of hand.

I think the main issue would be cost. You may have seen one of those really irritating narrated TV shows called ‘Vintage Voltage’ recently. Their EV conversions typically cost £20,000 to £30,000 - and I really wonder whether it would make sense to spend that much on a 240 that will be at least 30 years old (and maybe worth £5,000)?

Would you be comfortable having £25,000 to £35,000 tied up in a 30-40 year old 240? If so maybe it would be a good idea, but that would not be for me.

Good fortune,

Alan

[Laney760]

Originally Posted by Othen

I did a bit of a thought experiment regarding converting the Royal Barge to electric last summer - and eventually dismissed it out of hand.

I think the main issue would be cost. You may have seen one of those really irritating narrated TV shows called ‘Vintage Voltage’ recently. Their EV conversions typically cost £20,000 to £30,000 - and I really wonder whether it would make sense to spend that much on a 240 that will be at least 30 years old (and maybe worth £5,000)?

Would you be comfortable having £25,000 to £35,000 tied up in a 30-40 year old 240? If so maybe it would be a good idea, but that would not be for me.

Good fortune,

Alan

I knew it would be expensive and had thought when I get my ''inheritance'' its something I could do. Its still way cheaper than the purchase price of a lot of new model cars.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laney760

I knew it would be expensive and had thought when I get my ''inheritance'' its something I could do. Its still way cheaper than the purchase price of a lot of new model cars.

... you might find these interesting:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...postcount=1490

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...postcount=1492

... and a few posts worth of discussion later. Using a refurbished motor (no idea whether it would have been suitable or not) and secondhand batteries plus doing all the work myself I did a rough (back of a fag packet) estimate of £10,000 (just for the parts). Realistically I suspect it would be double that - with modern motor, new batteries and some professional help.

I agree it might be cheaper than getting a new electric model (they are coming down in price quickly though), but then you would not be getting a new motor car, but a 30-40 year old one.

People do this, but sometimes (from the Vintage Voltage programme) I think through having more money than sense. Just my thoughts - if I’m still running the RB in 10 years time (it will be 50 then) and the batteries become much, much cheaper I might think differently about it.

Alan

[DW42]

The problem I have with new electric cars is that they are unlikely to last longer than their batteries: maybe 10 years or so. A good older car (a 240) can be kitted out as a simpler electric car that can potentially last a very long time with battery replacements and upgrades as they degrade. There are now two places near me (Brisbane, Australia) who retrofit electric to classic cars. One of them is more about new parts and conversions, the other hunts down crashed Teslas and uses the parts. I'm waiting for batteries to get cheaper before taking the plunge. Both of my 240s are automatics, so I need a tough manual transmission, such as an M46, which I'll get adapted so it has two forward gears and reverse.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by DW42

The problem I have with new electric cars is that they are unlikely to last longer than their batteries: maybe 10 years or so. A good older car (a 240) can be kitted out as a simpler electric car that can potentially last a very long time with battery replacements and upgrades as they degrade. There are now two places near me (Brisbane, Australia) who retrofit electric to classic cars. One of them is more about new parts and conversions, the other hunts down crashed Teslas and uses the parts. I'm waiting for batteries to get cheaper before taking the plunge. Both of my 240s are automatics, so I need a tough manual transmission, such as an M46, which I'll get adapted so it has two forward gears and reverse.

The price of batteries was the issue that killed the idea that I (briefly) considered last year. Even using second hand batteries (and not Tesla ones at that) it would have cost £8,000 for enough to give a range half as good as running on gas. That may go down as batteries become more common, but so far that has not been the case because there is a good market for used ones in static applications (wind farms and so on).

I'm wondering why you think you might need a gearbox? When I looked at this I reckoned I could fit a 70kW motor in the space occupied by the RB's BW55 transmission, which would have saved a lot of space and weight. I might have needed a 3:2 reduction gear (maybe from a boat or a plant machine) to get a sensible ratio at the back wheel, but I couldn't think of any reason why I'd need a gearbox (and to fit one would be sloppy engineering as well as waste a lot of power).

Alan

[DW42]

The conversions that I've seen build threads for have all attached the electric motor to a manual transmission. No need for a clutch pedal though. This may now be an obsolete way of converting to electric? I'm not sure.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by DW42

The conversions that I've seen build threads for have all attached the electric motor to a manual transmission. No need for a clutch pedal though. This may now be an obsolete way of converting to electric? I'm not sure.

I think they do that because it is easier than doing the job properly, indeed they sometimes leave the clutch in as well (probably without the master cylinder) because it is easier than taking it out.

You will notice in modern EVs that there is no gearbox - because there is no need for one (electric motors produce much the same torque from 0-maximum RPM). EV conversions often leave the gearbox in place but this is pretty sloppy engineering and means the car has to lug around 50kg extra and has pretty considerable friction losses that don't need to be there.

I don't know if you looked at the link I posted above about my thought experiment for the RB, but I'd envisaged putting a 70kW motor where the BW55 gearbox sits now (they are about the same size). It looks like this:



... and the dimensions are:

Diameter 255mm (approx)
Depth 260mm (approx)
Height 280mm (approx)
Spine Diameter 20.02mm
Cooling Hose Connector Diameter 17.06mm
Mass 42Kg

... so very much the same size and weight as a BW55 auto gearbox.

There probably be a need for a 3:2 (or thereabouts) gear reduction (but no clutch or reverse gear of course) - so maybe a gear or chain drive inside an enclosure (and probably oil bath). This bit would need some engineering but it would hardly be complex (and probably exists already on a boat, plant machine or some other machine).

Another alternative would be to find a rear axle with about double the reduction - I think the RB has a 3.72:1 axle, so something around 6:1 - I don't know where that would come from, I think Volvo used a 4.1:1 axle in the 740, so it might be worth trying that as the RB is pretty low geared anyway. Maybe find a more powerful electric motor that would turn slower and so pull a 4.1:1 gear with a straight connection (just a sleeve with some splines each end, probably mounted in a bearing holder like it is now).

I'm always irritated when I see these conversions (like on 'Vintage Voltage' TV programme) when they leave the gearbox (and clutch) and then just drive the car in third gear all the time rather than bothering to solve a pretty simple engineering job. I think if I ever do this conversion (I suggested in my last piece I might in 10 years or so time, when the RB is 50) then I'd want to engineer the power train properly (particularly as the RB is an auto).

Interesting discussion.

Alan

[heckflosse]

Before doing anything permanent, watch to see other developments. Non toxic synthetic fuels may be round the corner, or hydrogen based technology.
There are so many IC vehicles on the planet , to scrap them all on the altar of electric transport seems a huge( and wasteful) task.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by heckflosse

Before doing anything permanent, watch to see other developments. Non toxic synthetic fuels may be round the corner, or hydrogen based technology.
There are so many IC vehicles on the planet , to scrap them all on the altar of electric transport seems a huge( and wasteful) task.

Thank you.

The slightly olde adage applies. Avoid being an early adopter of new(ish) technology.

In this instance it is vital tp proceed with caution. Those who outlive my generation will question why we have depleted the planet's resources and bequeathed sp much ill considered new technology to polute their planet. What a wonderful inheritance.

Stephen




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