Car functionality.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Its not what client wants.

That's not the case though, the client does want it. The number that don't want it are not heard by the dealer never mind the manufacturer.

Way too few in number to be of any significance.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

"Look, pal, I'm paying cash. But headlights levelling by hand gets fitted, get me some audio unit without Facebook and others, and if this car even once tries to take wheel from me, I'll bring it in and drive it up your... So decide- you want to sell or not"

It's an easy decision, it's too much faff giving you what you want. Don't go thinking every business wants every sale at any cost. Just not the case. For example when buying my car there were dealers who simply said no to the price I was asking for.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

I did it once in computer shop.

I got 10% off.

That 10% discount was nothing to do with Windows, it was there to be had regardless.

[ThomasG]

Not in that particular shop.

I think I got it only because owner was simply amused by sheer outrageousness of my equest.

Back tonl that dealer situation- yes there's a threshold to what you can demand.

As soon as the dealer/salesman realises that it will cost more to sell that car (cost of alterations) than not to sell it and try with someone else..

But its not a reason not to try.

Not a reason to go "belly up".

Why should I pay for something I don't even want?

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Why should I pay for something I don't even want?

You don't have to, manufacturers build, you don't have to buy.

The choice is entirely yours.

But we do live in a society where there is dependence on others and that necessitates compromising, whether we like it or not.

It's just as easy to ask why others should do without just because you don't want to pay for something you don't want.

[ThomasG]

And here comes the big one.

Lack of diversity in car market.

In new car market.

Its all the same, with different badges.

Sure, I don't have to buy this one.

But what shall I buy then?

Different make that has mostly same things fitted, no opt-out and so on?

So I drive an "old one".

Somehow I feel better with it.

Mind- I said " I drive", not that I'm requiring you to do so.

Anyway- I'm out of things to add, my second go at being "devils advocate" was a really good fun.

Thank you for that.

And I've learned few things here too. Like the fact lane assist is linked to indicators, for example.

Yet, I'll stay off "modern" cars for a while.

Until their equipment meets "my" safety standards.

(A lil disclaimer for whoever is interested:
ThomasG is "sort of" electrician, undertaking mostly home automation, signal processing and distribution.

In human terms: multi-source satellite television, home network solutions, audio and video streaming, home servers and automation (excluding Control4 and Crestron), predicting faults, misbehaviours, preparing end-user in advance, troubleshooting.

In slow preparation for IAM test (read learning at home, not going for test until convinced of readiness)

Being brought up in technically inclined family, and after subsequent training in computer networks and telecoms, he firmly believes that:

Equipment, if fails, should fail SAFE.
A breaker on your distribution board pops when there's fault in your wiring.
Failed safe.
Engine cuts out when it detects no oil pressure.
Failed safe.

Driver forgets to turn on lights falsely believing that they're on (front lit up automatically)
Failed DANGEROUS.(in a sense that equipment made driver believe the lights are on)

Car takes over the wheel (lane assist) when driver tries to go around pot hole.
Failed DANGEROUS.

And. That's it )

For my previous "bickering session, please look up electric cars thread from uhh.. some 10 months ago?

Off.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Thank you for that.

You're very welcome.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

And I've learned few things here too. Like the fact lane assist is linked to indicators, for example.

Every day's a school day.

It does demonstrate though that you fall foul of your own criticism, that of not thinking.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Anyway- I'm out of things to add, my second go at being "devils advocate" was a really good fun.

Indeed, it is always difficult to come up with never ending real objections when playing Devil's Advocate.

Truth is so was I. Most of the tech of any car I have bought was because that's what that car came with. The last three have been cars that already exist IE not factory order. But then I guess that's what has allowed me to see the benefit in, for example, the lights and the HUD. Other tech such as lane assist is switched off. BLIS is on, only because it would be daft not to when it is fitted and other tech is pretty standard.

What's important to me these days is reliability and not having to lie under cars doing the work myself.

One of the deciding factors on me changing was the air con pump bearing going on my last car, was away with friends for a few days, it got us there and came home on a transporter.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

It does demonstrate though that you fall foul of your own criticism, that of not thinking.

.

Me no perfect

Looking back, though, I should have figured it out myself.

Oh, well...

[MikeGMT]

In the Blue corner Thomas 'The Caveman' v in the Red corner IFO 'The Techno Geek', I score it even, just waiting for the knockout blow.

[MikeGMT]

It's coming, it's plain to see where all this technology is heading, at the moment it is all a bit dis-jointed but in the not too distant future they are going to cross the 'T's and dot the I's, and we will be merely passengers.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Me no perfect

That's a confession then, that you're not perfect?

And I'm therefore right.

...and we will be merely passengers.

I think there are many so called drivers already more like passengers.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

That's a confession then, that you're not perfect?

And I'm therefore right.
.

Only in respect to lane assist+indicators.

On other counts- I remain convinced that all these.. things.. do mor bad than good.