MPG and alternatives

[Philthy]

Having done a search I couldn't find a definitive answer on this so here goes;

A friend manages to run his Range Rover TDi on part self produced bio-diesel to roughly 0.33 of a tank for each fill. As a consequence his fuel costs are greatly reduced. Has anyone tried it with the D5 engine? I know Volvo say don't and it will wreck the engine, but is that corporate nonsense? Anyone, anyone?

[owenfackrell]

I don't know about the D5 particularly but high pressure diesel engines don't like veg oil due to a lack of lubrication to the high pressure fuel pump. Which means you end up having to buy a new pump and that kills any cost saving you will have got.

[Philthy]

That'll be the question answered for me. I suspected it would be a no no and a false economy if you're going to be paying out for more in engine repairs than if you'd just filled up with diesel in the first place.

Just looking at options in the event I struggle to find a suitable facelift model XC and end up with a pre '09 post '06.

[rickwales]

Dont Do It!!

Our recovery business gets 3 - 10 vehicles per week with contaminated fuel modern common rail diesels are very susceptible, if you want to use mixed fule by something old and pre common rail!!!

[Jim314]

Originally Posted by Philthy

Having done a search I couldn't find a definitive answer on this so here goes;

A friend manages to run his Range Rover TDi on part self produced bio-diesel to roughly 0.33 of a tank for each fill. As a consequence his fuel costs are greatly reduced. Has anyone tried it with the D5 engine? I know Volvo say don't and it will wreck the engine, but is that corporate nonsense? Anyone, anyone?

The main problem may be the models with the diesel particle filter (DPF). If you look on the threads concerning DPF, you will see that even the small amount (0.05 to 0.07 I think) of biodiesel in commercial road diesel that the Euro standards allow (or require) has caused problems via the regeneration cycle of the DPF.

Of course, it could be that none of Volvo's diesels can accept that level of biodiesel. It could be that seals or other components in the Volvo fuel system are harmed by high levels of biodoesel.

Biodiesel is not 'vegetable oil', but the methyl esters of the fatty acids in vegetable oil. These methyl esters are better solvents than the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel. Putting high levels of biodiesel in a car which has run for a long time on regular diesel can free deposits in the fuel system and clog the fuel system.

Putting high levels of biodiesel in a Volvo diesel is definitely not a good idea.

[Jim314]

Originally Posted by owenfackrell

I don't know about the D5 particularly but high pressure diesel engines don't like veg oil due to a lack of lubrication to the high pressure fuel pump. Which means you end up having to buy a new pump and that kills any cost saving you will have got.

There are systems for operating some diesel vehicles on straight vegetable oil (SVO) in which the SVO is stored in a separate tank. The engine is started on the regular fuel system and then switched over to the SVO system. Sometime before the engine is shut off the system is switched back to diesel fuel so that the fuel pump and injectors are not allowed to sit with vegetable oil in them.

By contrast, biodiesel is chemically changed by a process called 'trans-esterification' in which methyl alcohol (sometimes ethyl alcohol) is reacted with the vegetable oil to produce the methyl esters of the fatty acids in the oil. (The reaction mixture is then purified to remove harmful contaminants. If this purification is not done properly the resulting fuel will damage an engine or fuel system.) Biodiesel can be mixed with petroleum diesel in any proportions in the existing diesel fuel tank and fuel system. However, biodiesel has different properties which make it unsuitable for some engines, especially Volvo and VW diesels with DPFs which are regenerated by using the regular fuel injection system to deliver extra fuel during the exhaust stroke to heat the exhaust gases to burn up the soot in the DPF.

Here is one person's opinions and advice on using high levels of biodiesel in a VW http://notpetroleum.com/2010/06/06/h...-to-biodiesel/.

[Philthy]

Thanks again folks. The first response had me convinced not to go down this route. My colleague has run his very old Land Cruiser, '04 Range Rover TDi and now a Citroen C3 on his biodiesel product. Other than a waft of whatever was cooking in the oil sometimes there doesn't seem to be any issues so far with his vehicles. Having said that, the engines in his two 4x4s are a tad agricultural and I'm sure the LC would run on Elephant dung if it needed to. I'll let him know it's not for Volvo's.

[NCS XC90]

There was a poster who did run his XC90 on home made diesel. I think his name was "GSMGuy". He did a lot of miles on it and saved a fortune. His car was a 2004MY. You could try looking up his posts.
Neil

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by NCS XC90

There was a poster who did run his XC90 on home made diesel. I think his name was "GSMGuy". He did a lot of miles on it and saved a fortune. His car was a 2004MY. You could try looking up his posts.
Neil

He sold the car at quite a low milage though and he never posted his long term views on the experiment.

One of the big problems with biodiesel is storage. Unless you do very big miles so the stuff is used up quickly it will grow a culture in the fuel tank. Even the amount put in regular diesel causes problems if the stuff isn't stored correctly and used quickly. Run a search for blocked fuel filters. Garages are getting an increasing no. of diesels that need a new filter and the tank cleaned. The fuel filter gets full of a sticky black gunk which is the organic growth.

[NCS XC90]

Thanks Roy,
He lived fairly close to me and helped me when I needed some codes resetting. I got the impression he did quite a lot of miles on Bio 50k+. But I might have this wrong as he used it in his van as well. I do remember him putting some good post in the engine part of the forum related to problems with injector noise and a common fault code relating to the engine (related to the turbo). It may be these problems were caused by the use of Bio, who knows?

I must admit I wouldn't do it for the following reasons -
(1) Risk of screwing up the engine
(2) Space required in Garage for system
(3) general mess of dealing with so much oil. fuel
(4) possible insurance issues holding the volume of flammable liquid in the garage.

My guess is if you know what you are doing and willing to put up with the hassle it would work. But as I've stated I'm not willing to put my money were my typing hand is. My XC is great at present why risk it for a few quid.
Neil