Any Advice?

[Clifford Pope]

Originally Posted by Chris152

if those quotes are real - I'm starting to doubt the whole insurance world really exists, wondering if in reality it's just a computerised random number generator!

I think it really is almost like that. Apparently the computer-generated quote machine is simply a market balancing ready-reckoner. It looks at all the accident and cost statistics for that model of car, that type and age of driver, that location, and unpteen other factors. It is correct at that instant.
If you go back to the site a day later the factors might have changed. One way they can change is if more people were looking for quotes.

Some of the factors are obvious and capable of rational explanation - an accident-prone driver will be more likely to have an accident. Someone living in a slum area might be a higher risk. But an expensive gated community might also be risky because of having higher pickings for thieves generally.

One recently evident apparent paradox is that a car kept in the road is safer than one in a locked garage. But that's because most modern cars are stolen by either stealing the keys or scamming the locking system. So a car in a garage will be more at risk because its keys will be hanging on a hook in the kitchen, on a ring complete with the garage key. A car parked in the road might belong to any house in the road.
TPFT might appear to be a lower risk, but the kind of people who opt for it tend to be riskier.

Some factors are only incidental indicators. Alloy wheels are not particularly valuable, but the point is that people who fit alloy wheels after-market tend to be riskier. They don't (yet) ask about whether you have pink fluffy dice, but you can bet they would if they discovered that their owners drove more carelessly.

But insurance companies have not appreciated that an element of risk is essential to the insurance business. Supposing they developed such sophisticated questioning parameters that they could 100% accurately predict everyone's future accident record. Good drivers would not need insurance at all, and bad drivers' premiums would equal the costs of all their claims so there would be no point in them having insurance either. They would have killed the golden egg layer by being too clever.

Medical insurance is already going this way - if you can accurately predict an illness, then it becomes impossible to insure against it. And if you can accurately predict you aren't going to get it, you don't need insurance.

[Chris152]

Othen - Yep, 1700-ish is a price I'm prepared to pay under the circumstances, and I'm reassured to have found several similar - having just the one quote we could afford was always going to be risky.

One thing I'm not clear about - if he puts down that he has a provisional licence (which clearly he has to), will he only be able to take out provisional insurance (cheap) and then have to change that once he passes his test (expensive), or can we pay for full licence insurance immediately, so we get it at the current quoted price (less risk of it having gone up by the time he's passed his test)?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Othen - Yep, 1700-ish is a price I'm prepared to pay under the circumstances, and I'm reassured to have found several similar - having just the one quote we could afford was always going to be risky.

One thing I'm not clear about - if he puts down that he has a provisional licence (which clearly he has to), will he only be able to take out provisional insurance (cheap) and then change that once he passes his test (expensive), or can we pay for full licence insurance immediately, so we get it at the current quoted price (less risk of it having gone up by the time he's passed his test)?

You don't have any choice about this one Chris. You cannot state something untrue on the application, otherwise the underwriter will won't honour the contract (reasonably) if you or your son have an accident - in which case there is no point bothering to buy the insurance in the first place.

You have to declare the provisional licence, and take the hit when your son passes his test, that is the way it works. You can always ditch the cheaper provisional insurance if you want to once your son has a full licence. I wonder though, wouldn't it be better to spend the money on lessons at a driving school in that case?

Stay safe.

Alan

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by Othen

You don't have any choice about this one Chris. You cannot state something untrue on the application, otherwise the underwriter will won't honour the contract (reasonably) if you or your son have an accident - in which case there is no point bothering to buy the insurance in the first place.

You have to declare the provisional licence, and take the hit when your son passes his test, that is the way it works. You can always ditch the cheaper provisional insurance if you want to once your son has a full licence. I wonder though, wouldn't it be better to spend the money on lessons at a driving school in that case?

Stay safe.

Alan

For sure - I meant can we pay the full whack for the year at the outset, rather than have to 'upgrade' part way through the year and risk increased premiums by then. But in any case, having seen numerous quotes at an 'affordable' price I'm now less concerned that we won't find one when he passes the test.

On the driving lessons question, yes, the plan was to get the licence asap - I booked 5 lessons for him at an off-road centre and after he'd done 3, the instructor said he was doing really well and there wasn't much point doing more til he could get on the road. So we booked a lesson for his birthday (which was nearly a month ago) but before that could happen - lockdown! My feeling is it's going to be quite a while before it's allowed/ safe to sit in a car having lessons and a test, so it'll be me and him heading out on the quiet roads to start off - once we're allowed to do that.

[Laird Scooby]

Confused, GoCompare, Compare the meerkat and others all have different "kick-back" rates from the underwriters Chris, they also have varying criteria on the drivers they normally accept (hence the lack of quotes from some underwriters on certain comparison sites) so will all give slightly different results on each.

I did notice that nice 2.0 (think i called it a GLT earlier in the thread) is now up to £3000 on the bidding with 3 days left to run. Knowing your budget, it looks like the insurance may be simply academic in the near future.

Regarding the Colt Alan found it appears the seller has done a lot of the remedial work but that it's still going to need welding in the rear both sides.
On the upside, it's a nice little car with a reasonable performance and economy and although now tax and MoT exempt as the seller points out (although i suspect Alan is probably correct that those happen next year) it still needs to be roadworthy to use on the road.

I've just noticed some more posts appeared while i've been typing this, like Alan said the only way of doing the licence Vs increased premium for passing his test (back to front if you ask me, he's proved capable of driving then!) is to pay the cheaper premium as a named driver, build up a years NCB (as long as they haven't changed that) and get his test as close to his 18th and anniversary of insurance.

That way you'll minimise any "mid-term" changes (something a lot of places charge for as well!) and be in a position of strength to find cheaper insurance once he's 18 and passed his test.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Confused, GoCompare, Compare the meerkat and others all have different "kick-back" rates from the underwriters Chris, they also have varying criteria on the drivers they normally accept (hence the lack of quotes from some underwriters on certain comparison sites) so will all give slightly different results on each.

I've just noticed some more posts appeared while i've been typing this, like Alan said the only way of doing the licence Vs increased premium for passing his test (back to front if you ask me, he's proved capable of driving then!) is to pay the cheaper premium as a named driver, build up a years NCB (as long as they haven't changed that) and get his test as close to his 18th and anniversary of insurance.

That way you'll minimise any "mid-term" changes (something a lot of places charge for as well!) and be in a position of strength to find cheaper insurance once he's 18 and passed his test.

... Dave is right Chris, I'm afraid there isn't really a way of sugaring the insurance pill for your boy, it is just expensive however you do it.

Stay safe.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I did notice that nice 2.0 (think i called it a GLT earlier in the thread) is now up to £3000 on the bidding with 3 days left to run. Knowing your budget, it looks like the insurance may be simply academic in the near future.

Regarding the Colt Alan found it appears the seller has done a lot of the remedial work but that it's still going to need welding in the rear both sides.
On the upside, it's a nice little car with a reasonable performance and economy and although now tax and MoT exempt as the seller points out (although i suspect Alan is probably correct that those happen next year) it still needs to be roadworthy to use on the road.

I'll keep an eye on that Colt Dave. I remember having one as a loan car for a few weeks when I first arrived in Cyprus (not a good example though, it had been very badly neglected by a string of loan users over the years). It was okay if unexceptional.

The seller may have done some of the jobs listed on the MoT failure sheet - plus reconditioned the top of the engine (perhaps needed because it had been standing for years?) but I suspect it still needs some welding, which would have to be done right (including redecoration) and therefore expensive if one was going to keep it long term.

I suppose a Colt might be seen as a classic of sorts - well, at least an interesting older car that would be easy to drive and maintain.

Stay safe.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'll keep an eye on that Colt Dave. I remember having one as a loan car for a few weeks when I first arrived in Cyprus (not a good example though, it had been very badly neglected by a string of loan users over the years). It was okay if unexceptional.

The seller may have done some of the jobs listed on the MoT failure sheet - plus reconditioned the top of the engine (perhaps needed because it had been standing for years?) but I suspect it still needs some welding, which would have to be done right (including redecoration) and therefore expensive if one was going to keep it long term.

I suppose a Colt might be seen as a classic of sorts - well, at least an interesting older car that would be easy to drive and maintain.

Stay safe.

Alan

I'd suspect the radiator has silted up Alan causing HGF, had exactly the same scenario on a Hyundai Stellar (same engine but round the other way with bigger bores making it a 1600) and the radiator was full of silt, so bad i couldn't clear it so found a nice Cortina Mk5 radiator in a scrappy for a tenner (nearly new as well!) and fitted that. Same as OE spec so no worries on future cooling so i'd hazard a guess the Colt needs a new rad as well.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Regarding the Colt Alan found it appears the seller has done a lot of the remedial work but that it's still going to need welding in the rear both sides.
On the upside, it's a nice little car with a reasonable performance and economy and although now tax and MoT exempt as the seller points out (although i suspect Alan is probably correct that those happen next year) it still needs to be roadworthy to use on the road.

I asked the seller a few questions about the Colt. He says he has the V5 registered in his name, but that it is not registered as an historic vehicle yet. Much as I thought, it will not be tax exempt until 1 April 2021 (I told the chap he should SORN it, or otherwise risk DVLA charging him tax back to 2016).

He says the engine is running fine, temperature okay and fan kicks in. I wonder why the head gasket failed then?

He says he has spent his time getting it running - and the welding (reason it failed its last MoT in 2016) has not been done. I'm guessing it has been stet somewhere for that time so the rust won't have got any better. That could be a huge thing to factor in, and without having a look at it (not really possible at the moment) one would not know (could easily be BER if too much metal is missing).

He seems a decent chap, probably run out of money to fix it properly.

I think the car is too risky to pursue without a really good inspection. I suppose it might be worth £3,000 next April if the welding was sorted, redecoration done and interior fixed (it looks like the driver's seat needs re-covering. There won't be any parts available for a Colt now, so it would mean fabricating the bits needed, so it is (in my opinion) too much risk.

A pity.

Stay safe.

[john.wigley]

I dropped out of this thread a while back when the discussion on engines and fuel systems became somewhat technical and involved. I've skimmed the last few pages and wonder if insurance is still an issue?

I agree with 'loki' (I think it was) who mentioned 'Passplus' and the IAM scheme. The IAM also do young driver sessions under controlled conditions at certain locations (I believe Siverstone is one) for those not yet of age to hold a licence.

I'm not convinced that the 'named driver' route is desirable. Being on a parent's policy will not allow the youngster to earn NCB in their own right. In the unfortunate event of an accident for which they were to blame it would almost certainly adversely affect the policyholder.

Apologies, Chris, if these points have already been adequately covered, but if not, may I offer the following suggestion? I have known it work to the advantage of several youngsters, but that was a long time ago and the rules may well have changed.

Why not purchase a cheap moped and insure that? When the time comes to insure a car, even if the insurance policy itself cannot be transferred, it could be used to demonstrate a year's hopefully claims free driving experience, which would almost certainly help in obtaining a more acceptable premium.

Are you any closer to finding a suitable car yet?

Regards, John.