PilotAssist critical flaw

[destone]

We have a MY2018 XC90 and MY2018 S90 in our garage.

I’ve driven both cars over vast distances with PilotAssist on. It’s a great system overall.

One critical shortcoming though is that the system is not slowing down for stationary cars. This will lead to a crash situation if the lead car on a motorway changes lanes and the Volvo faces a stationary vehicle. Similarly, on an A-road, Volvo will not recognise a car ahead stopped at a red light. In the case of the latter, I can maneuver around this as I know the limitations of the system, but in the case of the former, I may not be able to react in time.

How is this possible if Tesla, with similar hardware (no LIDAR in either cars, just camera + radar) can? Should Volvo address this software issue for current owners even as they focus on the LIDAR-based “PA3”?

See this clip from Euro NCAP at 00:10s (speed 50 mph) to see what I am referring to: https://youtu.be/kp_LEFlYQpI

[Polestar Pete]

The Pilot Assist system is just that, an assist mechanism. If you lose concentration enough not to notice a stationary car in from if you, then it’s really the drivers fault.

Volvo is pretty clear on this matter. It’s there to make your drive more relaxing, it’s not there to take over.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by destone

We have a MY2018 XC90 and MY2018 S90 in our garage.

I’ve driven both cars over vast distances with PilotAssist on. It’s a great system overall.

One critical shortcoming though is that the system is not slowing down for stationary cars. This will lead to a crash situation if the lead car on a motorway changes lanes and the Volvo faces a stationary vehicle. Similarly, on an A-road, Volvo will not recognise a car ahead stopped at a red light. In the case of the latter, I can maneuver around this as I know the limitations of the system, but in the case of the former, I may not be able to react in time.

How is this possible if Tesla, with similar hardware (no LIDAR in either cars, just camera + radar) can? Should Volvo address this software issue for current owners even as they focus on the LIDAR-based “PA3”?

See this clip from Euro NCAP at 00:10s (speed 50 mph) to see what I am referring to: https://youtu.be/kp_LEFlYQpI

Tesla can't either.

The serious Tesla incidents that have been reported have been because the car has failed to see a stationary object. This is because it is currently almost impossible for a car to understand the difference between a "bad" stationary object like a car and a "good" one such as an overbridge or sign.

[rxtian]

I know what you mean, it's scary, but it is pointed out in the manual:
"When the driver supports are following another vehicle at speeds in excess of approx. 30 km/h (20 mph) and the target is changed from a moving vehicle to a stationary vehicle, the driver supports will ignore the stationary vehicle and instead accelerate to the stored speed."

I guess in testing they found that without this, the system did emergency stops too often (something I have seen complained about on Tesla forums).

[MikeGMT]

With all these driver assist systems, as the driver of the vehicle you have the ultimate responsibility, you are driving the car and not the other way round. This is my first car with these autonomous driving systems and having experienced them I am glad I didn’t tick the option box on my previous car, and saved some money.

Personally I find these assist technologies are not intuitive enough at the present time, although a lot of people really like them, you just have to use them whilst remembering they can’t cover every situation, hence all the advisories in the handbook.

As I found out some time ago these systems do have the potential to cause an accident, as well as avoiding one.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by destone

We have a MY2018 XC90 and MY2018 S90 in our garage.

I’ve driven both cars over vast distances with PilotAssist on. It’s a great system overall.

One critical shortcoming though is that the system is not slowing down for stationary cars. This will lead to a crash situation if the lead car on a motorway changes lanes and the Volvo faces a stationary vehicle. Similarly, on an A-road, Volvo will not recognise a car ahead stopped at a red light. In the case of the latter, I can maneuver around this as I know the limitations of the system, but in the case of the former, I may not be able to react in time.

How is this possible if Tesla, with similar hardware (no LIDAR in either cars, just camera + radar) can? Should Volvo address this software issue for current owners even as they focus on the LIDAR-based “PA3”?

See this clip from Euro NCAP at 00:10s (speed 50 mph) to see what I am referring to: https://youtu.be/kp_LEFlYQpI

Two key words... “Assist” & “limitations.”

The system isn’t designed to completely drive the car for you, so it will have limitations. It makes the driving experience more relaxed, but that doesn’t mean you can forget about all what’s going on around you either.

The driver has full responsibility at the end of the day, so I wouldn’t become reliant on these systems until (if ever) they’re totally up to scratch & 100% safe. Even then, I’d be hesitant! I still want to be in control.

[techwatcher]

Originally Posted by destone

We have a MY2018 XC90 and MY2018 S90 in our garage.

I’ve driven both cars over vast distances with PilotAssist on. It’s a great system overall.

One critical shortcoming though is that the system is not slowing down for stationary cars. This will lead to a crash situation if the lead car on a motorway changes lanes and the Volvo faces a stationary vehicle. Similarly, on an A-road, Volvo will not recognise a car ahead stopped at a red light. In the case of the latter, I can maneuver around this as I know the limitations of the system, but in the case of the former, I may not be able to react in time.

How is this possible if Tesla, with similar hardware (no LIDAR in either cars, just camera + radar) can? Should Volvo address this software issue for current owners even as they focus on the LIDAR-based “PA3”?

See this clip from Euro NCAP at 00:10s (speed 50 mph) to see what I am referring to: https://youtu.be/kp_LEFlYQpI

This is not a 'critical flaw' but a documented limitation of the system. The Driver Support Systems, which include Pilot Assist, are designed to make driving easier but should not be relied upon. As drivers we are responsible for control of the car, not the support systems.

The 'stationary object' problem exists because as Philip Fisher said it's very difficult to distinguish between types of stationary objects.

The systems will improve but may never be perfect. I read that if the system tried to avoid every possible 'hazard' the car would never move anywhere.

[Fursty Ferret]

in the case of the former, I may not be able to react in time.

Shouldn't make any difference. You're still the driver...

[ergonomist]

Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret

Shouldn't make any difference. You're still the driver...

True - but I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Yes - the law is clear, but perhaps the law hasn't caught up fully with current systems. If manufacturers provide a system that 'makes driving easier' then they are encouraging the driver to place trust in that system and devote less attention to the task of driving. It's not 'easier' in the physical sense (eg power steering) - it's easier cognitively.

If they provide such a system, then it's inevitable that the driver will be less engaged with the driving task. If the law truly intends to remain as stated, then perhaps manufacturers should be prohibited from providing systems that encourage reduced attention - particularly as that reduced attention may not be deliberate on the part of the driver.

A wider debate about the introduction of autonomous driving features is starting but perhaps is overdue.

And going back to the OP's original comment - I suspect that despite what the law says, it's inevitable that reaction time to a stationary vehicle in a running lane will be slower when Pilot Assist is in operation. There's currently a lot of research going on into the time taken to regain control from an autonomous mode, even with a warning, and I find the data quite concerning...

[EssexExile]

Originally Posted by ergonomist

There's currently a lot of research going on into the time taken to regain control from an autonomous mode, even with a warning, and I find the data quite concerning...

Which is why the few driver aids I have are turned off.