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Been sold a lemon

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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 13:48   #21
banksy66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasjgroom View Post
Yes, I'm going to be taking it back to him and he's going to arrange an independent inspection, i started this thread to see exactly what sort of position i'm in

I want him to give me a full refund as the car is clearly unroadworthy and i don't believe it can be repaired fully

and independent tester did the MOT but because of the plastic sill panels the y wouldn't of been able to see the damage to the door sill
Thanks

Ok, I'll start by saying that although I don't have formal legal training/qualifications, I used to work closely with the Legal Dept of a company which provided finance for cars and issues relating to "Satisfactory Quality" were commonplace, so I gained a lot of experience in the field.

The Sale of Goods and Services Act states a used product (in this case the car) must be of Satisfactory Quality taking into account it's age, general condition, mileage and the price paid. In other words, it is unreasonable to expect a £1300 car to be as good as a £13000 car. However, it is reasonable to expect the car to be in roadworthy condition unless you were notified otherwise before taking delivery, which I assume you were not.
The car passed an MOT because the tester was unable to access the affected area. Therefore both the trader and the tester would be adjudged to have acted in good faith. However, this does not do away with the fact that the car is (presumably) unroadworthy. I say presumably because I'm assuming any hole on a sill would be a fail, but it may be that is not the case as I seem to recall corrossion as such is only a fail on other parts of the car if it is within a certain area of sea/seatbelt mounting points etc. Incidentally, I don't know what car this is but I assume it doesn't have a separate chassis?
So, to be totally honest, I don't know if you are entitled to a refund in these circumstances because no-one could see or access the area concerned. That's not to say you're not entitled however, I'm just saying there are extenuating (sp) circumstances in this case

Incidentally, when it comes to refunds on used cars, you cannot mix in multiple reasons to strengthen your case. The sill issue may be sufficient on its own to warrant a refund, but the fact there is an issue also with the VVT is not necessarily going to strenghten your case. Traders have rights too, one of which is the right to repair and or mitigate (reduce) their loss although again, I don't know if this would apply in your particular case.

Speak to Trading Standards in the morning and run through the scenario with them. Incidentally, if you didn't buy the car local to you, you need to contact the TS office which covers the area where the alleged offence took place (ie the dealer premises)

Hope you get sorted
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 15:00   #22
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Trust me on this, go and get your money back ASAP, unless the trader has sold you that car as a "trade sale" you have rights in that it isnt roadworthy, ok so the MOT tester may not have known as it was behind a sill cover, but I bet the trader knew exactly what was going on with that car, AFAIK, you have a 3 month period where you can take the car back, he has a right to sell you a roadworthy car which it clearly isnt, even me as a home trader has to abide by these rules and I have had to honour them various times, either given the money back or repaired or replaced parts.

When did you buy the car? Sorry if you have said but I cant remember, go back to that dealer and kick up a right stink, believe me, he will rather give you your money back than risk his name being dragged through the mud, especially over that ammount, Iam pretty sure you will get it back without too much fuss, if he starts moaning, threaten him with trading standards, let him know that you know your rights and you are not gonna back down, I know I would be handing money straight back if someone started like that, traders dont like "screamers" and would rather cut their losses.

Oh and I dont know how many times I have said this, but AVOID FREAKING GREEN CARS!

Green = GRIEF!
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 15:05   #23
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You could get it repaired ie a new sill but if you go down this route, get the dealer to foot the bill, just make sure that you are 100% happy before as the dealer will probably write another reciept to say that he has paid for the work, you are happy etc and that is the end of it, if you sign it then a month later you find something else wrong you will be left stranded.

I personally would go and get your money back and go elsewhere, you can pretty much gaurantee that there is gonna be more problems with it, get out while you can and stay well clear of that dealer, he doesnt seem to have any qualms about ripping people off
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 15:51   #24
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The date on the receipt is 5/12/11

I wouldn't want the car back, since i do 90% motorway miles i'd never trust the chassis to be in any good working condition and don't believe that he can get it repaired so it's 100% safe
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 15:54   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banksy66 View Post

However, this does not do away with the fact that the car is (presumably) unroadworthy. I say presumably because I'm assuming any hole on a sill would be a fail, but it may be that is not the case as I seem to recall corrossion as such is only a fail on other parts of the car if it is within a certain area of sea/seatbelt mounting points etc.
My older brother's a motorsport engineer and he's hair some rust issue on a project car he used to have, he seems adamant that the damage is structural and makes the car unroadworthy. but i'm assuming if the dealer does insist on an inspection that it will say the same thing. i've got to go to volvo to pay the diagnostic bill i'm going to show them the same pictures and see what they think and if one of their mot testers can tell me what VOSA say about sill rust.
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 15:58   #26
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It is 100% safely repairable but it'll all come down to cost for the dealer and whether he is willing to take the hit.
Next time you're buying a car, can I suggest you take your brother!!! :-)
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 16:04   #27
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next car's getting a full AA inspection, but in my defence i didn't see this till i started examining sills in greater details i thought the plastic strips would actually do something to stop this sort of thing from happening
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 16:13   #28
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I would get out of this nightmare now, it will only get worse, dont go spending more money on reports yet, just go back to the dealer and tell him he has sold you an unroadworthy car, you want your money back and that should be the end of it, if he starts to play up, let him know that you are not going to give in, you are willing to take it as far as he wants, you as the customer will almost always win in a court, the dealer knows this, he wont want all that hassle over that sort of money, he could get fined, convicted whatever, all that hassle he wont want trust me.

I have had many people ring me back up after a sale, some try it on to get some money back, sometimes they are happy to have a repair done, other times they are kicking off they want their money back and I will give it them back, I dont want people like that on my case, I would rather give them their money back, fix the car if its fixable and resell it, if however its like what you have there, I would asses whether to bother with it and may even scrap it, it just isnt worth the aggro sometimes
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 16:15   #29
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You are entitled to your money back by law, see link from Citizens Advice Bureau

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/..._from_a_dealer
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Old Jan 8th, 2012, 16:24   #30
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Just on another note:

Those poxy sill guards are a nightmare, they hide and even encourage rust as they hold and trap dirt, moisture and water, a great recipe for corrosion, working in various scrapyards, I have seen cars come in looking quite tidy and rust free, then when I have ripped those sill guards off, the sills are rotten as pears, this was a major problem on the old early Fords like XR2/3s and 2/3is, the cars could look lovely but be falling apart under the sill covers, and even at MOT time it wouldnt be spotted because it was hidden.

I used to replace a lot of sills because of this, it only became apparent if the covers had been knocked off in a mild collision or someone had removed them to do some repairs etc.

Iam almost 100% sure that your dealer will refund you after seeing that rust mate, ask him if he would be happy with it, sills are structural and yes it can be repaired by replacing the sill, but what other rust is lurking elsewhere?

I dont think you will ever be totally happy with that car even after replacement, it will niggle your mind all the time.

PS: What is the car? Volvo s40?
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