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hydrogen powered 240

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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 11:29   #51
Othen
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I don't know if it came across in my post Alan but my figures were very much guessed at. They were based on my experience of LPG tanks that are considerably heavier than the LPG that goes into them, for something that only holds a kilo or 2 of hydrogen then i daresay the ratio is closer to unity than in the LPG tanks and unless i've totally misunderstood something, hydrogen needs to be stored under higher pressure than LPG so needs to withstand that pressure from a large quantity.

As for having pump attendants at filling stations, the local Shell station at Fiveways tried that a few years back.

At the time V-Power was new and was still doing what it said in the blurb (it no longer does ) so i was using that.

I pulled up to a pump to refuel and the attendant jumped out and grabbing the (basic) diesel pump nozzle, offered to fill my tank for me.
My vehement refusal shocked him. He still didn't get it when i grabbed the petrol nozzle

I point blank asked him as i was returning from paying if he'd worked out why i didn't want a tank full of diesel and he admitted he had no clue.

With that kind of mentality, attended service isn't necessarily going to be the answer!
I'm no expert on the pressure vessel piece Dave - and it is not important enough to worry about here :-)

The attendant piece: yes, I can imagine one might not get the cream of the crop as fuel attendants. I'm more thinking that there might be a requirement to make it a proper trade in order to make re-fuelling with hydrogen safe enough, should it ever be rolled out to the domestic car market. I must admit, I'm dubious enough about selling LPG direct to the car-buying public!

I'm pretty sure there will be a decade or more of experience from the haulage industry before anyone tries to sell hydrogen powered cars direct to Joe Public, it will be much easier with professional and regulated drivers of course, so the fuel industry will be able to work out the acceptable risks.

When I think back 50 years to when I was a child though, many of the risks we took with fuel would seem bizarre today. We still had town gas (just about, the change over to natural gas was happening), kerosene (paraffin) was sold at hardware stores into any old container the customer had (probably by a chap smoking a Craven A), every town had a coal yard with a haze of dust hanging over it, people burned coal on open fires, people smoked in their cars (even at gas stations, even whilst filling their cars)... in the light of all that do I think the risks of distributing and storing hydrogen are unacceptable: no I don't.

Alan
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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 11:32   #52
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Simple answer there Alan, store the electricity in batteries and use inverters to turn it back into AC to be stepped up by transformers for power transmission.

Think of it as a UPS on steroids.
... Dave, that piece (DC to AC in the MegaW to GigaW range) is far more difficult than you think it is at an electricity generator scale.

:-)
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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 12:02   #53
Laird Scooby
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... Dave, that piece (DC to AC in the MegaW to GigaW range) is far more difficult than you think it is at an electricity generator scale.

:-)
I know it's not easy Alan but it is possible. It is of course a compromise but then there are many more compromises on the National Grid at present so it's not outside the bounds of possibility.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 12:10   #54
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I know it's not easy Alan but it is possible. It is of course a compromise but then there are many more compromises on the National Grid at present so it's not outside the bounds of possibility.
Well, I suppose lots of things are possible, but no one (in the world) does this at the moment (converts low voltage DC to AC for transmission at a GigaW scale). Making an inverter at the GigaW scale would be quite an engineering challenge.

Anyway, we are going off an a tangent, the point is that electricity is really difficult to store.

Alan
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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 13:22   #55
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it seems the general public have become more forgiving and have shorter memories these days.
They are extraordinarily forgiving of things they like (cigarettes, social mixing at rave parties, alcohol, pollution) but puritanically against things the social media tell them are bad.

For most things they waver about in the middle, ready to pounce on any fault they are given an excuse to blame someone else for - unless they have already become addicted to it of course.
One false move by "them" and the pack will be off at full cry.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2020, 14:06   #56
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They are extraordinarily forgiving of things they like (cigarettes, social mixing at rave parties, alcohol, pollution) but puritanically against things the social media tell them are bad.

For most things they waver about in the middle, ready to pounce on any fault they are given an excuse to blame someone else for - unless they have already become addicted to it of course.
One false move by "them" and the pack will be off at full cry.
I think it has always been thus Clifford.

In the past things moved slower: people got information from the newspapers, then later the radio and TV, today the internet and social media make the volume of information and the speed at which it is delivered both much greater, however the veracity of that information is probably much worse.

You are right about there being a 'them' - it seems (to me) that many people see themselves as victims (whatever their grievance) and so it always someone else's fault.

I think it is just human nature.

Alan
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