Yet more problems with Classicswede

[940_Turbo]

Originally Posted by classicswede

What can I say. Rick was due at 6PM and arived at around 1PM while I was at the dentist.

Things were a little tense between us with all that had gone on. We went for a drive and Rick was happy that the car was running correctly on both fuels.

Rick had a look over the changes made to the injector brackets and I noticed his top engine mount had started to split as they do. I gave Rick a new ploy mount to fit.

I knew I had not done the bolts up but the thought had gone from my mind while at the dentist. The hose clips were all tight. You need to take care not to swing on them or you will end up cutting through the rubber hose.

Rick had told you when he was arriving. You told him you were at the dentist so he patiently waited. You then drove him to your house, not your workshop.

Rick was not 'happy that the car was running on both fuels'. Rick decided to take his car away because you had point blank refused to supply him with the goods he paid for. He gave you the opportunity to correct your poor workmanship. You rewarded him with yet more loose bolts anbd hose clips. Both Rick and I are well aware how a jubilee clip is tightened up. It is not a matter of opinion that the clip is too loose when;

a) gas leaks out of the joint
b) the clip is so loose that you can sping the clip round the hose with 2 fingers.

You did indeed give him a polybush top engine mount. Are you seriously suggesting that having spent £1340 on having his car converted and not receiving the parts that you both advertised on this forum and then verbally confirmed to both Rick and I that he should feel in some way compensated with £20 worth of polybush?

[classicswede]

Yes 6PM was the time I was told. Ricked called me around 1PM to say he was at the train station and yes he waited there while I was at the dentist.

Why would Rick tell me he was happy with the engine running if he was not?????

Yes he did struggle to understand how the spark plugs had been the cause of teh issue. You only need to skim through this section of teh forum to see that the ignition system needs to be spot on.

When you have a misfire on petrol then there is no hope for running on LPG.

To me you have come over as if you would only be happy with a Prins system fitted to Rick's car yet you have had issues with the Prins system on your own car.

A inspection from John Walker who does the UKLPG testing would be the best thing for everyone. You could contact Mike Chapman to try and arrange that.

[940_Turbo]

If all I wanted was a Prins system why on earth would I have stood by and discussed your 'premium kit'? Rick decided to take the car to you because you are supposedly the man who specialises in converting Volvos. That decision was in part driven by my own experience. My 940 has a Prins kit. It was fitted locally and when first installed I had issues with it. I was not happy at all. It so happens I speak fluent Dutch and I drove the car to Prins in Veldhoven. I demanded to see a technical guy, explained the symptoms and he agreed to look at the car. He then started laughing and explained the reason the car wouldn't run properly was because the vaporiser was on upside down.

I then did exactly with the guy who fitted my kit as Rick did with you, I spoke to him and informed him of what I believed the fault to be. He argued, but also said that he would ring Prins and get the low down.

He then did three things.

He rang me up and apologised, he said I had understood their technical guy correctly and he had been unaware of this issue. He should have known.

He arranged to pick the car up from my house.

He corrected his mistake.

He gave it back to me with a full tank of gas 'as a gesture of goodwill.'

The other thing he had done was supply me with exactly what I HAD PAID FOR. Namely a Prins kit with Keihin injectors. Since he supplied me with quality parts the fault was fixable. The car has done 170K miles on gas and has never needed and gas components replacing.

That was nothing like what is going on with Rick's car.

We understand fully the ignition system needs to be spot on. Rick's car was running perfevtly. We'd checked for fault codes it had none. It had fairly new ignition leads, roror arm and cap. It was fitted with Iridium plugs.

At no point did you say that was an issue. You gave it back with the plugs it had in when Rick drove it up to you. If iridium plugs were an issue why didn't you point that out? You had the car for 3 WEEKS! You had it for nearly 2 weeks when Rick took it back to you and it came back with gas leaks and loose bolts.

The car ran like a bag of nails after you converted it. We fitted the plugs you recommended and it made no difference to how the car ran.

We then fitted all new Volvo ignition components. There is no earthly reason why the car shouldn't have run properly with those if it had an ignition fault. Incidentally we fitted all the old stuff to an S70 and it runs perfectly on them!

The issue with you is that you have NOT supplied what Rick paid for. Your system cannot be fixed. It will always be a random collection of ultra cheap LPG parts. Rick specifically asked you about fitting a Prins kit. You said 'No fit my premium kit, it has the same injectors as the Prins but uses a much faster ECU.'

Rick accepted your advice because he had gone to a specialist. He did not get the same injectors as a Prins, he got ultra cheap Korean lookalikes at a premium price.

He did not get a much faster ECU, he got an Oscar N which is low end kit.

Your 'kit' makes no rational sense. Had he bought the Prins kit he would have received Keihin injectors, just the difference in the injector price between the Hana and the Keihin is the difference in the kits.

He is annoyed because he paid for Japanese Keihin injectors and you supplied cheap HANA injectors.

You gave him advice that was purportedly expert advice but as far as we can see it was merely self serving, It is not a premium gas kit.

Originally Posted by classicswede

Yes 6PM was the time I was told. Ricked called me around 1PM to say he was at the train station and yes he waited there while I was at the dentist.

Why would Rick tell me he was happy with the engine running if he was not?????

Yes he did struggle to understand how the spark plugs had been the cause of teh issue. You only need to skim through this section of teh forum to see that the ignition system needs to be spot on.

When you have a misfire on petrol then there is no hope for running on LPG.

To me you have come over as if you would only be happy with a Prins system fitted to Rick's car yet you have had issues with the Prins system on your own car.

A inspection from John Walker who does the UKLPG testing would be the best thing for everyone. You could contact Mike Chapman to try and arrange that.

[940_Turbo]

As I mentioned the other day the car went to be independently looked at on Thursday. It produced nothing much new really. It seemed to be running roughly the right fuel mixture.

However the car was once again missing under load, not good at all.

The general verdict was that the job was incredibly untidy with absolutely no thought given to the need to service it. The LPG filter is almost impossible the get to. There are also more wires rubbbing, below is the pressure sensor the wires to which are rubbing on the turbo pipe.



Unfortunately today the car packed up completely. The AA went out to it and got it going again, but the guy said he had no idea why it went again.

I've not seen it, Rick is on holiday this week; just what the doctor ordered, stuck by the side of a dual carrigeway with an expensively converted non functional LPG nonpowered V70.............. Holidays are such fun.

[brodgar]

So what exactly IS the report from the independant LPG specialist????


=====================================

The only way to get this thread to a close is to get a full LPG specialist report
on this conversion and installation.

And than sort it out legally.

[940_Turbo]

The report is that it is an incredibly shoddy job that was way overpriced for the components that were used.

That it misfires under load and can't be made to run properly.

Rick didn't go any further than that because it's decision time;

Does he spend more time and money trying to put right what he has got?

Does he rip the LPG kit out and have something decent fitted?

Or does he simply take the car to pieces and scrap it? The car can't be sold as it is, it won't run properly.

There are all sorts of issues, major and minor. The routing of the pipes os odd, there are hard lines the length of the car and then they cross from right to left at the cross member. It's bad practice. The placement of the major components is such that they're almost impossible to get to. Most LPG installers and Volvo themselves placed the evaporator at the back of the engine compartment on the passenger side, Dai hasn't it's right at the front under the battery.

There are two seperate if related issues. Dai didn't supply what he advertised, plain and simple. That doesn't need a report it's a matter of fact. He advertised and promised quality Japanese injectors he supplied Korean cheapies.

The quality of the job is much more subjective. There is no ultimate right or wrong. However Rick is using the car and it should be fit for purpose. The fact that the AA has to be called out and it keeps stopping.......

[mikealder]

Originally Posted by 940_Turbo

The placement of the major components is such that they're almost impossible to get to. Most LPG installers and Volvo themselves placed the evaporator at the back of the engine compartment on the passenger side, Dai hasn't it's right at the front under the battery.

BS EN 12979 Automotive LPG systems - Installation requirements Para 5,1:
All components are installed so that it is possible to inspect them and the relevant markings can be read

Hiding things away isn't correct when you read the standards - Mike

[classicswede]

The car in question here was returned with a running fault supposedly caused by the LPG system. After having the car inspected by a Volvo technician no fault was found with the LPG system and all the engines sensors were reading correctly. Simply fitting a new set of spark plugs cured the misfire that was present under high load on both petrol and LPG.
The bracket holding 1 bank of injectors was remade and the latest type fuel rails fitted to improve appearance. The function remained unchanged.
The customer took the car away running perfectly on both fuels but was however disappointed that the system was not at fault and therefore not changed for a different system.
I understand that the installation has been inspected by another installer and was found to comply with requirments.


I have received no further complaint from the CUSTOMER.

This thread has been started by a third party and the complaint are all coming from a third party.

I am now sending a written letter to the CUSTOMER so that IF there is issues we put together an action plan to resolve any such problems. Until I have received correspondence back from the customer I do not feel it appropriate to continue with this third party thread discussing his conversion.

[TheJoyOfSix]

Regardless of the truth of the above, I would like to point out that the 'Customer' is not a member of this Forum and has thus been reliant on a Third Party to post up on his behalf.

It still doesn't answer the question as to why, when top quality items had been paid for, you decided to fit the budget range of parts to his car. Even if (and this is subject to debate) the installation provided behaved as it should it still doesn't explain why the customer didn't get what he had asked, and paid, for. It has been shown that you advertised a range of 'kits' dependant on budget and quality, that the customer requested and paid for the top quality kit and yet didn't receive what he had paid for.

Until this issue is explained satisfactorily then I feel you can expect several more negative questions regarding to your business and its practices. In fact, given the other issues this customer has experienced, and the issues stated on the other thread, I foresee a lot of awkward questions in your future which I would urge you to address ASAP in order to salvage some dignity and possibly even your business future. However much we all may be mistaken, it does come across to all that you are burying your head in the sand and trying to evade the issues that have been raised.

[940_Turbo]

Dai, you are living in a fantasy world. The customer wasn't 'disappointed that the system was not at fault' the customer was disappointed that the system you fitted DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY.

You profess to specialise in converting Volvos. The work you turned out is shoddy, it uses inferior quality components and the lack of expertise is evidenced by the simple fact that the car fails to work properly.

Rick complained to you that the system didn't work properly and he incurred expenses, both monetary and in loss of time and earnings taking the car back to you. He did so because that was the reasonable thing to do and because you had assured him that you would change the system on his car. You assured him you'd give it back to him fully functional.

It was driven back to you on petrol because it wouldn't run on LPG at all.

You reneged on that promise. You rang Rick up and told him the car was ready to collect and that all you had done was changed the spark plugs. It took you nigh on 2 weeks to change 5 spark plugs.

At that point Rick got extremely angry. He knew the issue wasn't the spark plugs. At your behest he had changed ALL the ignition components, including the plugs. He had first fitted NGK plugs, then he changed everything for parts bought from Volvo. The car still wouldn't run properly.

I then became involved. You had agreed with Rick to fit an OMVL system. You told me by phone that you didn't want to do that because it would look untidy. All you could get was 8 cylinder injector blocks.

You then talked me through, a myriad of systems, none of which you wanted to fit. Eventually you agreed to replace the parts you'd fitted with a Prins kit.

You then demanded £775 to do that.

At that point Rick collected his car, not because he was happy it was fixed or because it now worked but because it was the only course of action left open to him. When he collected the car it still ran badly and misfired.

The myriad of faults are listed in this thread. We now know the following.

1) The certificate you issued for your 'installation' is from an organisation that ceased to exist in January 2008.

2) You failed to supply the parts listed on your own price list.

3) The work you turned out is not fit for purpose, the car refuses to run properly on LPG and it has broken down completely on several occasions.

4) The parts you used are of poor quality, this is not a 'premium gas installation'.

Rick wants his money back. That is the only recourse left open to him and he will write to you to that effect.