Multiple Barrel Roll Crash - No Air Bags!

[S60D5NI]

Originally Posted by Danneh

To be fair, I really want to get into competitive driving and skid pan training and learning how to control these drifts very well - predicting the weight transfer very well and knowing exactly all the time how to control anything dodgy. Not that you should ever really need it on the roads, but tracks are fun for it

I think this is exactly the point. Mr Needell, the Stig etc. practice their techniques for car control regularly (if not daily). However, us ordinary motorists will not be able to react in the same way when caught out - either braking or controlling a skid. Therefore ABS DTSC etc. is a real world life saver. We may know what to do, but if you are 'not in practice' you're still going to end up in the hedge.

Originally Posted by thebigv

The quickest way to stop on ice is to plant your foot to the floor and heave the handbrake up

Maybe, but there is absolute scientific evidence that the greatest braking force is just before the wheel locks up. Certainly in the dry, a car with ABS will stop quicker than one with its wheels locked. I wouldn't disagree that an experience driver avoiding the lock-up may be able to stop quicker, but why then did they develop ABS in Formula 1 (before it was banned)? Surely it must have given a competitive advantage in braking!

I do remember reading somewhere that locked wheels will stop you quicker in snow and on gravel - the theory being that you build up a 'wedge' in front of the wheels hence aiding braking.

[RaVolvoR]

Originally Posted by S60D5NI

I do remember reading somewhere that locked wheels will stop you quicker in snow and on gravel - the theory being that you build up a 'wedge' in front of the wheels hence aiding braking.

Pretty much the same as on Ice where the small pool of melted ice provides the bow wave...

There is never a perfect solution for any situation. Even rally and F1 drivers have "moments" and they're not all mechanical failure, they sometimes simply foul up, but of course the excuses get better!

Everyone at some point drives faster than their ability to control should ever permit, so how do you prevent that? You don't! All you can try to do is educate, some learn and live, some never learn and their results are in the newspapers.

[rippedoffagain]

Originally Posted by thebigv

The quickest way to stop on ice is to plant your foot to the floor and heave the handbrake up,

The quickest way to throw the car out of control while trying to stop on ice is to pull the handbrake and make the back end of the car into a sledge that works independently to the front of the car.

You have all the weight over the front wheels, so they become the pivot point, and the slightest little deviation from a perfectly straight line on a perfectly level surface will slingshot the back end of the car around that pivot point.

It happened to me once. It was only by pure luck that I didn't hit anything. It was quite embarrassing having almost reached my destination, and now pointing the direction I'd just come from and having to sheepishly to a 3 point turn to get back on course for the last few yards.

[andy_d]

M. Matt
thanks for taking the time + trouble to show us ALL why volvo's have as good a saftey record as they have.
I hope the new volvo arrives as soon as practically possible along with your recovery.
Feet up, its naff telly time (otherwise known as xmas).

[jackass]

[QUOTE=RaVolvoR;601897]Pretty much the same as on Ice where the small pool of melted ice provides the bow wave...[QUOTE]

I'm not convinced that's rights, both ski's and ice skates slide over snow and ice (respectively) because they melt the material directly beneath them and turn it into water which lubricates them.

[RaVolvoR]

[QUOTE=jackass;602061I'm not convinced that's right, both ski's and ice skates slide over snow and ice (respectively) because they melt the material directly beneath them and turn it into water which lubricates them.[/QUOTE]

I think its a fluid flow issue, you said it, "it melts beneath them". The design of the ski is like a F1 power boat, get to a certain speed and it rides up on the surface of the melted ice below it. A tyre is really not going to do that (until you aqua-plane of course, now that is really good fun... like ice but without the visual aid!).

The water is a consequence of the friction, a tyre just creates a bow wave, ski's etc are designed to ride that wave and plane over the surface (like the F1 boats). The water maybe lubricates or maybe exists because of the friction, but either way the ski isn't designed to slow you down, quite the opposite. We are talking of tiny amounts of water for skis too, even a car tyre won't produce a bow wave more than a few milimetres high.

But I'm always happy to listen to a better argument.

PS Andy_d makes a good point, we've sort of gotten of the thread a bit!

[jp11]

Originally Posted by andy_d

M. Matt
thanks for taking the time + trouble to show us ALL why volvo's have as good a saftey record as they have.
I hope the new volvo arrives as soon as practically possible along with your recovery.
Feet up, its naff telly time (otherwise known as xmas).

Well, lets hope the Chinese make our Volvos as well as the Swedes.......
I just found out today the latin root of the Volvo name - VOLVERE. When you've worked out what that means, we'll all have a chuckle.

[boggymarsh]

You could also say that volvere was an anagram! :-o

[jp11]

Originally Posted by boggymarsh

You could also say that volvere was an anagram! :-o

Takes us back to the beginning of the thread....

[reesky]

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

I've never known a car have a grab handle for the driver. What's that for? Is it in case the steering wheel falls off while you're driving? Honestly I can't think of a use for it.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a use for them on any of the doors.

The primary purpose of the grab-handle is for fat people to lever themselves out of a vehicle