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Injector change update-Bosch Gen 1 to Gen 3

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Old Sep 5th, 2018, 15:23   #1
AllHailKingVolvo
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Default Injector change update-Bosch Gen 1 to Gen 3

Hi all,
Just wanted to write an updated appraisal of the later four-pintle Bosch Generation 3 injectors Vs the yellow OEM Gen 1 units.

I’ve recently done a “stage zero” recommission on my 744 as it had been standing for a while and had been a little neglected prior to it coming into my possession. I wanted to freshen everything up and return it to as close to factory spec as possible...this included a full ignition rebuild (new plugs, leads, coil, cap, rotor arm, ignition amplifier), new discs, pads and fluid, new clutch, new cambelt, new fuel pumps and filter and all the obvious stuff like oil and filter etc.

The one part of the fuelling system left to sort, after reflowing the joints and testing the injector relay, was the injectors themselves. The car ran and drove well, but was a little lacking in torque and, whilst it always felt willing, it wasn’t always able without working the box in a manner similar to Gilles Villeneuve on a lap of Monaco (albeit rather slower!).

I started sleuthing online about injectors, and found that Bosch has superseded the original yellow units with a slimmer black injector (100% compatible with the old ones and existing LH 2.4 EZK/ECU without remapping etc) that has an improved and more efficient spray pattern with four nozzles rather than one, for better atomisation and cleaner burn, resulting in (so the claim goes) better MPG, better driveability and a smoother engine.

I couldn’t resist trying them out. I bought a set listed as remanufactured, but which were actually taken from an unused crate engine for a Vauxhall Omega V6.

Installation was a cinch-they fit exactly the same way as the yellows, except with no need for the retaining clip to attach them to the fuel rail.

Car started on the button and ran just fine. Took it up the road and found little initial improvement bar a little more top and bottom end torque and a slightly flatter powerband.

However, after a few more days of running, the EZK/ECU has done its homework and adjusted everything accordingly, and the improvement is very much evident...everything is smoother, the car is quicker and feels a lot less laboured to drive, as the B200 NA car can tend to do. Willing and able, now!

In short, I’d heartily recommend the upgrade for anyone thinking of changing their injectors. I’ve kept the old Yellows in case of any issues, but I don’t foresee myself changing back!
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Old Sep 5th, 2018, 19:06   #2
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762 stock vs 045 black.



No retaining clips is a bit sketchy.
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Old Sep 5th, 2018, 19:38   #3
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762 stock vs 045 black.



No retaining clips is a bit sketchy.
Very interesting, thanks for posting the comparison-interesting to see the difference in peak flow. From what I’ve read, due to the more efficient atomisation with the quad pintle setup, the 045 units increase MPG...presumably hence the lower peak flow rate.

Bosch maintain that the 045s are the official replacement for the now out-of-production 762s and are fully compatible. I was concerned initially about the retaining clip issue, but the end that is seated into the manifold has a different profile to the 762 units, so they fit very securely with zero room for lengthwise play.

Having read up on a couple of Porsche forums (the 045s are also used as a replacement in a Porsche unit, I can’t recall which car), the retaining clips aren’t used with the 045s there too.

As I mentioned, I’ve kept my stock injectors (and the clips!) and will refit them if the black units don’t work out.
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Old Sep 6th, 2018, 10:19   #4
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Great write-up Phil! If the injectors came from a V6 Omega, that means you've got two spares as well!
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Old Sep 6th, 2018, 13:45   #5
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Looks good, you may also feel a difference just due to the fact the injectors are brand new and not worn/heavily used like the old ones.
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Old Sep 6th, 2018, 21:50   #6
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Inspired by your efforts Phil and also because of a pong of petrol from the air intake trunking while changing the air filter the other day and a few other things that on their own would be "just one of those things" but together all point to dodgy injectors, i bought a set of Omega 3.2 V6 injectors on ebay today.

Not reconditioned/new like yours but apparently in excellent condition and a nice price as well.

Will add to this thread with my experiences when i fit them.
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Old Sep 7th, 2018, 02:48   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
Inspired by your efforts Phil and also because of a pong of petrol from the air intake trunking while changing the air filter the other day and a few other things that on their own would be "just one of those things" but together all point to dodgy injectors, i bought a set of Omega 3.2 V6 injectors on ebay today.

Not reconditioned/new like yours but apparently in excellent condition and a nice price as well.

Will add to this thread with my experiences when i fit them.
I look forward to your thoughts on them! As Jim said, it may be just because they’re new, but my car is absolutely purring with them in.
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Old Sep 7th, 2018, 11:50   #8
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It'll be an interesting comparison Phil - mine is running LH2.2 so no Lambda, cat or closed-loop control or fuel trims.

As such whatever difference they make will solely be down to the injectors.

Allegedly they've been despatched today by a 3 day courier so will probably land tuesday/wednesday next week.

Might be a little while until i fit them because i want to make some aluminium adaptors to fit LPG nozzles (spuds) into between the injectors and manifold but i might (depending how much the existing injectors play up) just fit them and have done.
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Old Sep 7th, 2018, 12:23   #9
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Now here is an interesting question, how much can the ECU adjust for. I'm running a B230FT with the original 0-280-150-804 injectors in, can I up the injector size and it will still compensate as long as I don't try any push it too high on the flow rate?

I have the boost raised at the moment and I'd be far happier having more fuel at my disposal before going too much higher (16T turbo fitted but not running it more than around 10-12psi).

Ideally I'd like to try larger new injectors to see if there is any difference before going down the chipping route.

I did try this on my 1990 Polo GT after being told it was a self learning ECU but it ran like crap with larger injectors in so they were swapped back.
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Old Sep 7th, 2018, 15:20   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimsiss View Post
Now here is an interesting question, how much can the ECU adjust for. I'm running a B230FT with the original 0-280-150-804 injectors in, can I up the injector size and it will still compensate as long as I don't try any push it too high on the flow rate?

I have the boost raised at the moment and I'd be far happier having more fuel at my disposal before going too much higher (16T turbo fitted but not running it more than around 10-12psi).

Ideally I'd like to try larger new injectors to see if there is any difference before going down the chipping route.

I did try this on my 1990 Polo GT after being told it was a self learning ECU but it ran like crap with larger injectors in so they were swapped back.
Good question! I've always been of the belief that it is +/- 10% around any given parameter, primarily to take into account component tolerances.
Did the Polo GT have a Lambda sensor? Also how much more flow did the injectors you fitted have over stock units? Did you reset the ECU when you fitted them? Did you have any other mods to improve airflow? What was the standard output of the car? What were the original injectors on the Polo?

Those injectors you quote as being stock on your Volvo flow 311cc/min @ 3bar so on a 4 cylinder engine should be more than enough for a 200bhp output, depending on other mods. Bear in mind your FPR keeps the fuel pressure (usually) about 2 bar above manifold pressure so when you're on boost, the fuel pressure will be somewhere around 2.5bar, assuming 0.5bar (7psi~) of boost. That still gives you some room to play a bit.

https://www.polog40.co.uk/article_injector_table.php

Table gives injector flow cc/min @3bar and injector resistance.
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