2.4D (2005 on) Intank pump

[mikeys40]

Have you tried pulling the spill off pipes to see if one or more injectors are leaking? this will stop the injectors reaching the desired pressure to fire.

1 or 2 knackered injectors could stop it starting all together

[Bernard333]

I think your probably right or should I say I hope you are right as I dont want to contemplate replacing water damaged modules as even two new injectors would be relatively cheap compared to a new CEM , where I am it rains 24/7 so probably not surprising that the car would eventually let water into places it shouldnt be .

PS sorry for going off from the subject of the original post but I am thinking that the failed injector(s) leaking back on mine may have caused the in tank fuel pump failure so hope its got some relevance .

[outnumbered]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D5-Tank-Fu...item2c62de419d

[Bernard333]

Finally after 9 days of sheer frustration I managed to get the car started again today , there were a number of problems any or all of which could have contributed it breaking down , I am not certain that any of the causes have been properly fixed so I will have no confidence in it for the next couple of weeks .

The T5 petrol fuel pump appears to work fine in a D5 engine , that means any fuel pump from any petrol V70/S60/S80 should work in any 2001 to 2004 Euro 3 D5 this potentially could save money as the petrol versions can be had in scrap yards for £30 or less whereas the scrappers know how rare a good D5 pump is so they charge three or four times the price . Swopping them over is messy as the plumbing is different between the petrol and diesel engines . Removing the plastic pipes without damaging them is fiddly and they need to be softened using a heat gun or gas flame . I had to use a gas flame this time and the whole thing caught fire a few times . As far as I can see I still have some kind of problem with the in tank pump because its not putting out 3.8 bar pressure or even the 2 bar specified for the correct pump , at the injection pump its only coming out as a trickle when it should be spurting . The fuel filter was changed early December at the same time I fitted pump no 3 which failed again last week but it wasnt me that fitted the filter so I am wondering if its been fitted incorrectly or there is some kind of blockage between the tank and the injection pump .The car now starts first touch of the starter and does not go into limp mode on hard acceleration so obviously the in tank pump is delivering enough fuel . Before anyone else uses a petrol pump in place of a diesel let me see if its going to last because the mismatch of pressure and flow rate could cause it to burn out prematurely or even worse it could damage the injection pump but I dont think this will happen .

I have one or more faulty injectors which are leaking back at a high rate of at least 1litre per minute , you would think this would make the engine difficult to start but its not . Leaving them leaking back like this may be putting extra stress on the injection pump and the in tank pump ? I am looking to get injectors but am going to see how this goes for a few weeks as I am not going to buy new ones as they cost £200 each and other than the leak back and potentially burning out another in tank pump I cannot see any detriment to performance or increased fuel consumption .

The CEM had water dripping on it , drying it with a hairdryer it seems to now be ok as I cannot see anything not working as a result but how the designers of the car could allow this to happen in the first place is beyond me , I now have to make some kind of Heath Robinson plastic cover for it or fix the leak . There was also a blown 15amp fuse ( fuse 11C/33) fuel pump , dont know exactly what caused this , could be the many start up attempts and extended cranking during last weeks failed attempts to get it started .

There must be some underlying cause to make three pumps fail in 155000 miles . I know its not unusual for the in tank pump on a Volvo to last 200k miles or more so whats caused three to fail on mine ?

[micken]

The trickle at the injection pump has got me, other than the fuel filter there should be nothing else in the way. Some common rail systems have a fine gauze filter at the injector pump but I've not heard of anything like this on a D5.

[5cilinder]

A few observations:

1 liter a minute return over the injectors is WAY to much not only for the highpressurepump capacity wich cant keep up pressure enough.
But also for engine balance wich if limit exceeding on correction will release the railpressure valve ( i read this in a common rail article )

Concerning your intankpump
A trickle points to blockage and may be the cause of failure of your previous pumps/fuse.
Did you remove/inspect all te pipes including the left saddle tank ejector?
If yes/no is there a clogged sucktion filter?
Also make sure there is no blockage in your fuel return line ,not obvious do for a blockage but its time to make sure after all this hassle
Try pressured air to see if there is pressure buildup
Also a transparant tube to the high pressure pump could be clarifying airbubbles

Try to remember if these problems came up in the winter ,if there was buildup with water somewhere ,than frozen water in pipes could temporarly block and damage pumps

[Bernard333]

Thanks for the advice , I have added some comments in response .

Originally Posted by 5cilinder

A few observations:

1 liter a minute return over the injectors is WAY to much not only for the highpressurepump capacity wich cant keep up pressure enough.
But also for engine balance wich if limit exceeding on correction will release the railpressure valve ( i read this in a common rail article )

Answer : I agree with your theory but the theory does not line up with what is actually happening which is that the high pressure pump is keeping up with capacity despite the leak back and pressure , I know this to be true because I have just come back from a 26 mile round trip to the nearest Tesco and wellied it all the way to see if it would go into limp mode but its performing ok on acceleration and fuel consumption does not look affected . I would like to know how often the common rail pressure valve releases in normal driving conditions , is it opening and closing constantly or just occassionally ? I think there is also some kind of pressure relief valve on the injection pump itself because a fuel return line from this joins the injector leak back path to the tank , what I am measuring is the grand total of leak back from the injectors plus the leak back ( if this is the correct term ) from the injection pump , perhaps there is something wrong with my injection pump but I have never heard of one of these failing on a Euro 3 D5 , they are apparently reasonably bullet proof .

Concerning your intankpump
A trickle points to blockage and may be the cause of failure of your previous pumps/fuse.

Answer : I agree with you on this and am considering checking the pipes between tank and filter and filter and engine .

Did you remove/inspect all te pipes including the left saddle tank ejector?
If yes/no is there a clogged sucktion filter?

Answer : Yes I removed the sender/pump assembly and the sender assembly on the other side and completely removed the cross tank syphon pipe . There is a gauze filter on the fuel pump inlet and this was clear on the diesel pump . On the petrol pump I noticed fine metal particles had gathered on the gauze indicating worn fuel injectors on the T5 , I swopped the filters because the petrol filter is a finer gauze than the one filtted to the diesel .

Also make sure there is no blockage in your fuel return line ,not obvious do for a blockage but its time to make sure after all this hassle

Answer : The fuel return line is definitely clear as it was able to deal with 5 litres of fuel sucked from a container and returned down this line within a few minutes of driving . I have also left off the round steel covers and rear seats and foam sound proofing so I can hear the pump more easily .

Try pressured air to see if there is pressure buildup
Also a transparant tube to the high pressure pump could be clarifying airbubbles

Answer : I will try using an airline thats a good idea . I already used a clear plastic pipe to feed the high pressure pump , even with airbubbles and feeding the pump from a 5 litre container the high pressure pump is very forgiving of air bubbles , it seems to cope without missing a beat unlike the previous generation of direct injection pumps which would have needed bleeding perhaps this is one of the benefits of a two stage high pressure pump in the euro 3 ? Can the newer single stage pump fitted to the Euro 4 D5 engine cope with intermittant supply of diesel as well as the Euro 3 design , perhaps this is a cost saving done by Volvo when Ford got involved with the design , I cannot see any other reason for it ?

Try to remember if these problems came up in the winter ,if there was buildup with water somewhere ,than frozen water in pipes could temporarly block and damage pumps

Answer : Yes water is a possibility but not frozen water , its going to be minus 15 deg C in parts of England tonight it will not go below 4 deg C here , we dont get the extremes of cold weather experienced in England and mainland Europe .

[5cilinder]

Ah total return...
I was thinking only the injector return
Those must be below 40 ml pro injector/minute

Maybe its me but i noticed a lot of threads on fuelpressure issue's here and also in other forums
Is this coincedence or related to the cold weather ?

[outnumbered]

poor servicing.
mike

[5cilinder]

Is poor servicing only reserved for cold weather?