Major Ignition problem 544 B20B

[lelshaddai]

There may be answers for this already. I looked and could not find them.

Background, 1962 544 w/ 1969 B20B from 144. Distributor is vacuum retard and disconnected. Has original coil and armored cable.

Has been idling rough and timing and carb adjustments have not helped. Also has run on and can bog down on acceleration.

I went ahead and installed electronic ignition module. Used diode an wired as instructed. Car would try to start but would spin and die. Looked online and timing is important to set new for the module. Tried going all the way to 90 degrees with no success. Cannot turn the distributor much counter clockwise since the vacuum pot contacts the block. Still cannot get it fired up. Just brief spin so it seems like it is getting spark. Negative(black wire) coil wire sends 13v to the module. Red wire with diode is connected to on power at the fuse box and starter solenoid as advised. Called IPD and they suggested that I reinstall the points to see what is going on. Did that did get it to run at first but dwell was 68 and I wanted it to be at 60. When I first started to adjust this I would get it to start for 1-2 seconds and then it would die. Worked hours trying to dial this in to no avail. Very frustrated. Coil and plug wires are sound and work. At one point I used a spark detector and the coil wire sparked. I could not tell you how strong, other than it fried my multitester when it exceeded the volts allowed. I filed the points and the cut in and out correctly. The condenser is allowing 13 v into the points. I have order a new Bosch, cap, rotor, points, condenser and coil. Although replacing the coil will be a pain with the armored cable. Right now I am not sure where the problem lies. I will replace the cap and rotor Friday first and work from there. Is there a way to test this type of coil. I have tested a regular one before. Nothing seems to work at this point. I was working and now it does not. How could I fry a coil this way?
Any help out there?

[arcturus]

Probably done already but check that timing is not 180* out. B20.Anti clock to advance. if the vac. canister is fouling the block you are way too far advanced. Try setting initial static about 5/6*BTC and see what happens.

[Army]

I can't help with "where the red wire goes" type questions - I can add however that it seems to me like a timing / strobe light would be useful and a safe way to see if HT leads and spark plugs are working as needed.

I've got one that clamps on the outside of the HT - operates on its own electrical circuit so to speak which doesn't effect other things (it does its best to by-pass the Heisenberg measurement nightmare that often thwarts diagnosis of electrickery)

[kishor]

Originally Posted by lelshaddai

There may be answers for this already. I looked and could not find them.

Background, 1962 544 w/ 1969 B20B from 144. Distributor is vacuum retard and disconnected. Has original coil and armored cable.

Has been idling rough and timing and carb adjustments have not helped. Also has run on and can bog down on acceleration.

I went ahead and installed electronic ignition module. Used diode an wired as instructed. Car would try to start but would spin and die. Looked online and timing is important to set new for the module. Tried going all the way to 90 degrees with no success. Cannot turn the distributor much counter clockwise since the vacuum pot contacts the block. Still cannot get it fired up. Just brief spin so it seems like it is getting spark. Negative(black wire) coil wire sends 13v to the module. Red wire with diode is connected to on power at the fuse box and starter solenoid as advised. Called IPD and they suggested that I reinstall the points to see what is going on. Did that did get it to run at first but dwell was 68 and I wanted it to be at 60. When I first started to adjust this I would get it to start for 1-2 seconds and then it would die. Worked hours trying to dial this in to no avail. Very frustrated. Coil and plug wires are sound and work. At one point I used a spark detector and the coil wire sparked. I could not tell you how strong, other than it fried my multitester when it exceeded the volts allowed. I filed the points and the cut in and out correctly. The condenser is allowing 13 v into the points. I have order a new Bosch, cap, rotor, points, condenser and coil. Although replacing the coil will be a pain with the armored cable. Right now I am not sure where the problem lies. I will replace the cap and rotor Friday first and work from there. Is there a way to test this type of coil. I have tested a regular one before. Nothing seems to work at this point. I was working and now it does not. How could I fry a coil this way?
Any help out there?

Hi
Swap the position of your number 1 and 4 plug wires, and 2 and 3 wires on your cap without removing the distributor. I think its just out of timing

Ta
kassie

[Derek UK]

When correctly timed the vacuum canister is approximately parallel to the block or putting it another way the flange of the vac can is at right angles to the block. Just setting it like this will usually enable you to start the engine. With the engine at TDC (front rockers both rocking free) the rotor should point towards the notch in the edge of the distributor. Notch is at about 11 0'clock. Turn the engine until the pointer matches the 10º mark on the crank pulley. Rotate the distributor until the rotor again points to the notch. Tighten distributor clamp. You can fine tune from there but the engine should run OK after you have set the idle speed at the carb.

If the vac mech isn't positioned as above it is likely that the drive gear has been put in one tooth out. Easy to do as it rotates a bit as it meshes with the cam gear. See the manual for pictures of how it should look when you look down on it. Remember that 1º of rotation of the distributor is equal to 2º of timing so adjustment is very sensitive. If you want to set it crudely get someone to turn the key to run the starter and rotate the distributor back and forth at around the normal position as described above. Beware that once started it is possible to increase the tick over a lot by advancing the distributor. While you might think this is good it absolutely isn't. Timing will then be far too advanced and the engine will be very difficult to start, if it will start at all.
68º dwell means that the point gap is VERY wide. Reduce it until you get the dwell you want. Dwell angle setting does have its devotees but most won't have a meter and just set the gap to 16 thou.

[Ron Kwas]

lel;

To check Ign components, bring everything back to its most basic: Make and break Ign Coil primary current, and check for HiV Spark out of coil. See: http://www.sw-em.com/Volvo%20Ignitio...ition%20System

If Vacuum pot fouls on engine block, Dist drive gear has been moved to some other position than factory...not a problem per se, but it limits range of adjustment as you have experienced. See here for explanation and corrective options: http://www.sw-em.com/Volvo%20Ignitio...ional_Position

Good Hunting!

[lelshaddai]

Thank you for the information. Things I did try.
This is an 086 dist with vacuum retard. I do not know whether that makes a difference on the pot position.
The car was running OK but not perfect before I installed the ignition module. I had the notch at 11 oclock and the mark at 10degress and rotor lines up with mark. When the car ran before I could adjust timing with my light, easily with enough room. I was getting a spark out of the coil at one time during this process but could not tell how strong. My tester just lights up red light. I will try the test. I have not seen a spark lately. I have adjusted the dwell from 68- 53. Plug wires are correct. I get my new ignition components today. I will try cap and rotor first and work my way back. It will be a shame if I did something to the coil. But they are old cars.

[lelshaddai]

I want to thank Ron for his article. I used that and think I have most of it figured out. Tested the coil using his method and did get a spark. set the points at 16. I replaced the cap and rotor with genuine Bosch. Started right up. Looks like bad cap and rotor. Dwell is at 56-57. Is that acceptable? Weber is at 1 1/2 turns and adjusts about 1/4 turn either way. Still shakes a little at idle. I may drive it this way a bit and then try the Electronic module later. Timing is at 16.
Thanks for the help.