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Body wobble/vibration under acceleration

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Old Nov 16th, 2018, 13:16   #21
Yobbo
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I'll just post here for anyone's future reference if you're an owner of a manual T5/D5/D4/D3.

As far as the offside shaft goes it's almost as if there's a conspiracy...
I've been trawling the ST forums for the last couple of days and also posted on a couple of Facebook forums too, virtually all recons/refurbs/aftermarket offside shafts are total garbage that cause horrendous vibrations.
The J&R 'Uprated' Focus ST shafts can be hit and miss - my nearside started knocking after 6 months and the offside while still holding up gets knocky after the car's been driven for about 30 mins or so.

So the consensous is - get genuine Volvo/Ford shafts or S7 Motorsport shafts.
Volvo wanted £476.40 for the offside shaft I need (on an exchange basis - nearside was £432) or include an additional surcharge of £180 per shaft...
SORRY KIDS CHRISTMAS IS CANCELLED

The S7 shafts can be had from £500 - £720+.


I'm frustrated that there are reconditioning specialists out there that are literally putting not fit for purpose shafts in the marketplace, these need testing on a car, not just a lathe with gauges to ensure they're balanced.
Considering these components are part of the drivetrain and could cause a potentially lethal accident if they go wrong is frankly shocking. The original manufacturer is GKN and whatever components they're using for the inner-tripod bearing, well it's clearly superior to whatever the domestic suppliers (and possibly beyond) are using and they need to clean their act up.
Note: The original inner-CV cup design is triangular as opposed the reconned cups which are round - is this the reason for the wobble?

Volvo/Ford want the earth for driveshafts that are known for their failures and put an astronomical price on it... If that isn't the definition of a monopoly then I don't know what is.
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Old Dec 4th, 2018, 13:56   #22
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Update #324

Took the plunge and bought some S7 Motorsport Shafts, guess what...


Wobble is STILL there, though a bit less pronounced, it most notably occurs on light to moderate throttle in 2nd gear at around 1.5-2k RPM, but also at higher speeds when I put my foot down.

I noticed however that when undoing the wishbone ball joint that the front bush was seized in position as I pushed the arm down away form the hub - this would explain why I was getting intermittent clunking and a noise very reminiscent to CV joint clicking, it seemed to be more apparent when the ambient temperature was higher.
So last night I re-fitted my old original Volvo wishbones and the clunking/'clicking' disappeared, also a slight benefit was the vibration became a little more muted so it still leaves me with problem in hand.

On the 5th set of shafts now so I'm veering towards a dodgy wheel bearing despite it being replaced last year, either that or a worn lower engine mount and possibly alignment.
Still doesn't explain why the vibration goes away when I put the uprated J&R shaft on though...
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Old Dec 18th, 2018, 10:52   #23
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any updates on this ? I am getting vibrations through the throttle pedal at circa 60-80 mph when i press the throttle lightly, heavy acceleration seem ok. coasting in neutral seems ok.

the car has done 120k but most of the running gear has been replaced in that time, shocks, springs, wishbones etc. Buckles removed from wheels, wheels balanced up etc.

I am leaning towards it being the offside inner drive shaft CV, this had a split in the boot recently and looks to have some play in it but sorting a replacement affordable driveshaft looks to be a nightmare, also I need to use the local garage to fit itm which will add to the costs.

If I get them to source a replacement I guess I have, in theory some come back against them if the vibration goes and comes back but somehow I expect getting them to then swap it out FOC will be an even bigger nightmare.

There must be someone who supplies reliable drive shafts at a sensible price
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Old Dec 18th, 2018, 19:48   #24
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Well the latest update as above is that I'm now running S7 motorsport shafts (though I actually believe they are the latest S9's) and raised the car to -25mm.
Wobble is still present but on the first few 2nd gear pulls of the day in this cold weather it actually doesn't actually appear, so only when the car is warm...

Over the last week I came across some posts on a Focus ST forum and also on Swedespeed which detailed worn upper gearbox/engine mounts causing vibration as suggested - when accellerating from 1-3k rpm in low gears (peak wobble most pronounced in 2nd gear at around 2k for me).

This is the mount located under the battery box so the strut brace and all that has to come off to get access.
You will need to eventually have the car on stands and the engine supported with a jack using a plank of wood on the sump - easiest to remove the battery first while car is on the floor!!

In any case I did find some wear on mine an found a notable difference in the design of D5's transmission mount (otherwise known as 'left engine pad') compared to the petrol variant of the 5-cylinder engine.

What stood out to me was that instead of a shallow rectangle design as found on the Focus ST/T5s the mount had a much larger rubber cone -
Volvo part no: 30741143
I'd been aware for some time that the D5s do not have a gearbox lower torque mount and associated arm - for what reason I do not know, perhaps it's because of the way the PAS pipes are routed hence the bracket which connects them to the side of the M66 gearbox. However, to me it seems like a seriously ill thought out design consideration when you factor in how much torque a stock D5 can make!
This seems to be a possible factor as to why the D5 mount is designed as such;
a) to reduce NVH associated with a diesel engine
b) to make up for the lack of a lower gearbox mount!!

I spoke to a guy called Dom who'd had a C30 D5 with the exact same symptoms, he purchased a new set of shafts but the offside driver's failed not at the inner CV joint but at the support bearing just like his old one.
The new shaft lasted just 30k and in the end he moved on and got an Audi S3.
It makes sense to me that if his top gearbox mount had deteriorated, you're going to get so much movement from the engine and box, and seeing as the support bearing is fixed in place it's going to take a hell of a hammering.
In my case it may be that the box and engine are moving so much that its allowing the inner CV tripod to reach such an angle that its on outer range of the cup.

Now the reason why the J&R uprated offside driveshaft is not producing the vibration is possibly down to the fact it does not use a tripod bearing but rather a 6-ball bearing Rhzeppa joint which allows a much greater degree of angle for operation. I did a little test with both types of shaft off the car and the J&R one could indeed allow a much greater angle without being notchy at all, wheras the tripod bearing variants were when at their maximum angle value did notch as you rotated them. (imagine holding the shaft up at 45 degrees and rotating it - that was my test haha!!)

So I have Febi Bilstein top gearbox replacement ordered from Autodoc on it's way and fingers crossed, this will be the cure!
If it is then I'm also going to look into retrofitting a lower gearbox mount to assist with things - it's only going to be of benefit.

Will report back...
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Old Dec 28th, 2018, 14:22   #25
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Nother update - the upper gearbox/left engine mount did F all.
I give up now, it's got to be the shafts and nothing else.

May as well just live with it and save up for a genuine offside shaft now, or sell a kidney.

Can't fathom as to why the aftermarkets/refurbs are so terrible, surely can't be that hard to make a driveshaft that doesn't wobble your t*ts off?
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Old Feb 23rd, 2019, 13:15   #26
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I have a c70 t5 2006 with a vibration when I accelerate between 40-50 after its warmed in the morning, usually 5 miles at constant 50 plus (I never high rev until it’s warmed up). Then I notice it happening the same time from cold start on my way home. The vibration/hum (which is a new recent one) I feel in the steering wheel. Definitely not balancing as I know what that noise/feel sounds like, I have 18” alloys which honestly doesn’t work with this car. I’m tempted to replace with 17” with bigger tyres.
I have had several items replaced under over the years, tie bars rods etc. It’s a heavy front car so a lot of items that can fail, bloody minefield of hassle.
It started not long after getting it back from the body shop, but my repair including a door replacement was on the passenger side, my new issue seems to come from the drivers side.
Taking it back to see what they think, mechanically they are sound.
PS. I feel your pain. I had issues with an S80 for a coupley of years. Several modules, gearbox sensors, VOLVO experts, all couldn’t diagnose the problem until it turned out to be a wiring loom break with water ingress. Simple rubber seal in the end. That seal cost almost 2k.
I’ll ask them to check the mounts at the gearbox for play.
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Old Feb 25th, 2019, 12:14   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkieuk666 View Post
I have a c70 t5 2006 with a vibration when I accelerate between 40-50 after its warmed in the morning, usually 5 miles at constant 50 plus (I never high rev until it’s warmed up). Then I notice it happening the same time from cold start on my way home. The vibration/hum (which is a new recent one) I feel in the steering wheel. Definitely not balancing as I know what that noise/feel sounds like, I have 18” alloys which honestly doesn’t work with this car. I’m tempted to replace with 17” with bigger tyres.
I have had several items replaced under over the years, tie bars rods etc. It’s a heavy front car so a lot of items that can fail, bloody minefield of hassle.
It started not long after getting it back from the body shop, but my repair including a door replacement was on the passenger side, my new issue seems to come from the drivers side.
Taking it back to see what they think, mechanically they are sound.
PS. I feel your pain. I had issues with an S80 for a coupley of years. Several modules, gearbox sensors, VOLVO experts, all couldn’t diagnose the problem until it turned out to be a wiring loom break with water ingress. Simple rubber seal in the end. That seal cost almost 2k.
I’ll ask them to check the mounts at the gearbox for play.
Your wobbling issue sounds like rear wishbone bushes in all honesty.
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Old Feb 25th, 2019, 12:19   #28
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Might as well throw another update:

I had it confirmed that my car is running the S7+ Motorsport Shafts, yes they do have a slight vibration at low RPM but I've been happy enough with them.

I'm going to look into retrofitting a lower gearbox mount, so it's just a matter of time really on that front.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2020, 01:08   #29
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Hey, did you ever get to the bottom of this 20mph wobble?

My V50 D5 manual does the same. Wobbles 18-22 mph only when under load. Coasting is fine.
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Old Feb 27th, 2023, 17:50   #30
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Hi, did you ever find the cause of this?????? My D5 v50 is doing the exact same and I have replaced so many parts trying to diagnose the issue that its driving me insane haha
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