Towing question trailer weights

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by green van man

Just to confuse the issue I was told no you could not tow a trailer rated above the max towing weight of your vehicle even empty as it had the potential to become over weight if loaded when I did a recent C&G trailer course, unless it was de rated to the correct weight by fitting a new rating plate.

Paul.

That's worrying you were told that on a course as it is entirely without any factual basis.

The plate on the trailer pertains to the load parameters of the trailer - it's nothing to do with whatever vehicle it is attached to.

It is perfectly acceptable and legal to tow a trailer that is plated with a maximum gross weight above the towing capacity of the towing vehicle so long as the actual weight of the trailer is within the vehicles towing limit. Probably 40% or more of HGV's on the road are operated in this configuration.

If the Police or VOSA intend to issues a FPN or prosecute a driver for exceeding the towing capacity or MAM of a vehicle - they must establish what the weight is and that means the use of axle scales or a trip to a weighbridge.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by skyship007

Sounds correct.

If you have a horse box, any Volvo can tow it with just one horse, BUT be careful to check the owners handbook limits and box weight, cos many Volvo's can't tow a box with 2 big horses. So I suppose my horse box should have the placard changed. Alas it does not have one fitted at present.

...or you could swap your horses for donkeys???

[green van man]

As an aside, it is reconed that 50% of all Ivor Williams trailers on the road today have at sometime in their life been stolen. Many do not have their makers fitted plate on them for this reason.
It could of course of been ligitematly lost but be careful if thinking of buying one without its plate.


Paul.

[Baxlin]

"If the Police or VOSA intend to issues a FPN or prosecute a driver for exceeding the towing capacity or MAM of a vehicle - they must establish what the weight is and that means the use of axle scales or a trip to a weighbridge."

Thanks Tannaton,

That's my understanding from speaking with DVLA, and it relates to the whole 'rig' wrt correct licence groups

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by green van man

As an aside, it is reconed that 50% of all Ivor Williams trailers on the road today have at sometime in their life been stolen. Many do not have their makers fitted plate on them for this reason.
It could of course of been ligitematly lost but be careful if thinking of buying one without its plate.
Paul.

I've got a very old (1988) Ifor Williams GD64 which I bought and rebuilt - the plate had been removed and it was before the days that trailers had VIN's and were stamped. Hence I bought a generic plate from e-bay and stamped it myself with information provided by IFT. They were quite helpful and if the trailer is stamped with a VIN they will supply a replacement plate.

[Whyman]

Originally Posted by Baxlin

I've just had to apply for my 'over70' licence, all categories were grandfathered, apart from C1 and D1, which, on my pre 97 Licence allowed me to drive op to 7.5 tonnes. Before submitting my application, I phoned DVLA for clarification of the 3500kg limit, and without C1, it is literally the maximum weight i can drive, this being the same as a post97 licence.

3500kg is the weighbridge weight, including fuel, load, passenger, driver (and his lunch!), and, if your licence allows towing, the weight of the trailer, again including everything in or on it, is part of the 3500kg.

From this, it seems to me that the plated weight of the trailer, for these purposes, is irrelevant, but I suppose the rule of thumb 85% rule, for controllabilty's sake, would still apply.

I was not sure this is correct. I have looked at the you give website which is as clear as mud and the cCaravan Cub website which quite clearly states that after age 70 with a B licence you are allowed to drive any vehicle up to 3500kg, car 4x4 etc towing any weight of trailer that is within the towing limits of the vehicle with the proviso of the 85% rule still applying.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Whyman

I was not sure this is correct. I have looked at the you give website which is as clear as mud and the cCaravan Cub website which quite clearly states that after age 70 with a B licence you are allowed to drive any vehicle up to 3500kg, car 4x4 etc towing any weight of trailer that is within the towing limits of the vehicle with the proviso of the 85% rule still applying.

The "85% rule" (i.e. the trailer weight should not be more then 85% of the towing vehicle weight) is a generally well accepted "best practice" for caravans which are big, boxy and subject to a lot of wind forces. It is not the basis of any legislation nor is it a criminal offence to exceed it.

You still read posts on some forums that it is an offence for the trailer to exceed the weight of the towing vehicle - that is an urban myth also (in isolation).

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

The "85% rule" (i.e. the trailer weight should not be more then 85% of the towing vehicle weight) is a generally well accepted "best practice" for caravans which are big, boxy and subject to a lot of wind forces. It is not the basis of any legislation nor is it a criminal offence to exceed it.

You still read posts on some forums that it is an offence for the trailer to exceed the weight of the towing vehicle - that is an urban myth also (in isolation).

I second that. Take my landrover defender 90 td5, the towing limit is far higher than the weight of the landy.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

I second that. Take my landrover defender 90 td5, the towing limit is far higher than the weight of the landy.

Yup - kerb weight approx 2t, max trailer weight 3.5t, MAM > 5t....

[Baxlin]

Originally Posted by Whyman

I was not sure this is correct. I have looked at the you give website which is as clear as mud and the cCaravan Cub website which quite clearly states that after age 70 with a B licence you are allowed to drive any vehicle up to 3500kg, car 4x4 etc towing any weight of trailer that is within the towing limits of the vehicle with the proviso of the 85% rule still applying.

"Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).

You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg.

You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old."

The above is a copy and paste from the DVLA website, the first line still a tad open to interpretation, but the second line quite clear, IMHO.

The over70 licence, without C1 and D1 is the same, for these purposes, as the post-97 version.