"Why don't I buy a more modern car?"

[Mike_Brace]

Originally Posted by barrie013

. However, I do not doubt that the newer Volvos are sensational cars, and assumig the build quality is still up to standard, no doubt they will give their owners many years of trouble free motoring.

The S60 mentioned in my first post has just over 100k on clock. It is needing new front wishbones, new rear wheelbearing, new rear discs, handbrake shoes (fallen apart) and pads. This lot costs a hell of a lot more for parts than a 240.

Mike

[swedish brick]

Hi everyone, im new to the forums and this is my first post!

Modern cars, personally I hate them! I am a mechanic myself so see alot of things most people dont! ive found nearly all makes and models made in the last 10-15 yrs or so seem to suffer from poor build quality and cheaply made componants not to mention the incredable cost of parts to keep them going!

My Volvo, a 1979 244DL, is superior in every way (except fuel economy!)
its very well made, easy to work on, bigger and stronger than nearly everything else on the road, (only another volvo could cause it any damage!), cost hardly anything to buy, and honestly it looks fantastic!

My second car is a 1974 mk2 capri 1.6 and has the same things in its favour, (with the exception of cost, spent about £5K on it so far as it was a total rust bucket when I got it, but it was still driveable and looked good) there is no way any modern cars will last as long as this. (30+ years).

Modern cars all look the same and have no charecter, and beleive it or not my volvo will out run alot of modern stuff. neither of my cars have ever let me down or even failed their MOTs.
I also have to agree with most people about the awful seats in modern cars, they seem rock hard with no give!

Im only 21 and have been laughed at many times because of my choice of cars but who cares! if their mondeo or vectra can outlive my cars and give them as much enjoyment maybe ill change my mind about modern cars, but dont count on it!
Old cars all day long for me.

your talking total garbage mate modern cars are far better built than cars from the seventies, the build standard at that time was dire for the average car, and to somehow claim a ford capri was a well made durable car is laugable ,any car built in the last ten years has far more chance of lasting thirty years than any car from the seventies ever had thanks to proper rust protection ,galvanized panels, wax injection etc etc

[222s]

Originally Posted by chow

your talking total garbage mate modern cars are far better built than cars from the seventies, the build standard at that time was dire for the average car, and to somehow claim a ford capri was a well made durable car is laugable ,any car built in the last ten years has far more chance of lasting thirty years than any car from the seventies ever had thanks to proper rust protection ,galvanized panels, wax injection etc etc

You're the one talking garbage. Modern cars do rust - I've seen R reg cars with worse rust than my Amazon*. Also, the complexity of the electronic systems means that many are scrapped for minor faults which are prohibitively expensive to fix. The old stuff is so much easier for the home mechanic to work on. I recently helped my brother change the turbo on his modern Pug diesel, and it was a nightmare to work on, with no space at all under the bonnet.

It's not a coincidence that several of those on here who are championing old cars are mechanics.....

*39 years old, 260,000 miles, unrestored, in everyday use and parked in the street. It has also proven itself to be more reliable than most of the modern cars in the family, having so far never failed to get me home.

[swedish brick]

I dont think so! prehaps I take alot more care than most people with my cars because I know from experience what the problems can be. Yes ok I agree that modern rustproofing is very good and 100% better than it used to be, though not perfect. Most old cars were welded at ony a few years old back then, but mine are fine! Good maintainence pays off! My capri is much more durable than most modern cars easily as nothing can go wrong because it is a basic car, and its done over 130K so must be upto it.
Admitadly there are some disaterous old cars out there, alot of BL, BMC cars have bad reputations and ive heard of some Hillmans being built with front disk brakes on one side and drums on the other, sandwich crusts left inside door panels etc, but that wouldnt deter me from buying one!

Modern cars will be rare in the future as the electrical equiptment breaks down from age/over-use etc and eventually lack of maintainence as it gets older, also not helped by the cost of repairs and parts. I have seen many modern cars with these sort of faults.
Good examples being cheap bonnet levers breaking off in your hands (megane), coolant leaks (dads new corsa), poor panel gaps (old shape vectra), sluggish acceleration in hot weather (mums focus), worn out ball joints causing MOT fail (BMW with only 25K on the clock), MOT fail on rusty sills (almera and fiesta). All on cars less than 15 yrs old.
Having said that I have worked on mondeos, vectras etc with nearly 200K on the clock and they have been ok. So its not every car thats bad.

But this is just my personal experiences, and certainly not garbge, im just saying my own preference is old cars with charecter, certainly not that anyone with a modern car is wrong or stupid!

what car you drive is up to you, no one would would call anyone stupid for that choice, i own a modernish v70, a sixties triumph herald, and a seventies norton commando 850 bike, so im not biased,( i even have pratical classics deliverd every month!) however the fact is cars from the sixties and seventies were no way as well put together as they are today there is just no comparasion in the standard, my wifes got a punto thats ten years old, not a spot of rust on it, imagine that on a ten year italian car built in the seventies, why? because fiat along with everyone else raised build standards no end in the early nineties, its not only better bodies its far better electrics, fuel systems, and equipment levels, sorry there is just no way anyone can honestly say cars from the seventies were better made, they were not.

[swedish brick]

chow

Yeah I see what you mean, but thats progress in car design in 30+ years, what I mean is that even now cars still have problems that were present that long ago, they may not have been as well put together back then, but they were far stronger, built out of (usually) thicker, stronger gauge steel etc, the almera I mentioned earlier had such thin steel that the sills were hard to weld as it blew holes straight through, no wonder it went rusty so quickly. No such problem on my capri! and thats had a fair bit of welding done to it in the past! But even Banger racers try not to use newer cars as they are so weak! A 15 year old cavelier wont last long against a 40 year old A60 on the track, its a far stronger design and materials!

I dont think there are many modern cars I could justify spending so much to buy them, when you see problems like those above, and then get hit with a huge repair bill!
But as I say some modern cars are fine, how many mondeos, vectras etc have been sold around the world, so they must have done something right making them. But again its just what I like in cars that its something different and looks good, there arent many modern cars that have such cool styling, even what were standard family saloons such as the mk3 cortina was cool looking, the modern equivelent mondeo doesnt even compare!
You say modern cars have better fuel systems etc Yes they are better, more efficient etc, until it breaks! then you get hit with a huge bill to repair the complex injection systems etc, an old car with a carb may go wrong a bit more often but 9 times out of 10 it easily fixed on the driveway at home and generally costs less to do.
Then again people who like cars from the 40s and 50s probably say the same about unreliable rust buckets from the 70s and 80s! my volvo and capri were new once too, and probably were hated by the old car fans from back then!

You surely must agree though that driving an old car like your herald is way more fun, even if it isnt as fast or powerful as your modern car?
I love driving my capri, its nice getting the thumbs up from pedestrians and other road users, for keeping such cars going. As I say its never let me down in the 5 years ive had it, or failed its MOT! (ok im a mechanic so can easily do stuff myself to avoid MOT fails etc) So I get all I want and more out of owning old cars and see no real benefit in getting a modern car.

[James_N]

Im going to link another topic here, because i think it runs alongside nicely what we have been talking about. This debate is happening on another forum i frequent, and its a very interesting read http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=17598044

What are people opinions on the whole "Buying a car on finance?"

Personally, ive been on both sides of the coin. I financed a £16k car at 21, and rapidly decieded it wasnt worth it. The threat of theft etc as described in my earlier post, lead me to a cheaper reliable car in the form of a 7 series estate, and to be honest, ive never been happier. Just 1 month after getting rid of my £16k car that i had for 8 months (and lost £3k), i now have £2,500 savings behind me, and hardly any outgoings

No question the build quality has improved dramatically and modern cars are better in the sense that the finish is higher on all parts. But the trouble is that modern cars are jam packed with stuff that is likely to fail sooner or later and then what? Haf the car needs to be removed to gain access to parts that need replacing not to mention the price. Do you seriously think that in 20 years time, Volvo will still stock the engine management ECU for an S60? Trust me, they won't. The fact is that in 30 years time, a car will well and truly have become a consumer goods that will be consumed and after five-six years, it will be scrapped and recycled to make new cars. This is not the least due to the technical development that renders modern cars old very fast. In 1985, a 240 from 1980 might have looked a bit old but the technology was the same. Today, a car from 2001 lacks many of the "must-have" fatures of a 2006 car and I am sure that by 2015, a 2005 car will be as cold on the second hand car market as yesterdays dinner. A late 940 still commands prices over 4000 pounds in Sweden, many S80s have lost considerably more in relative terms over a shorter period.

No, of course in the end we are stuck and our old Volvo's will be made illegal by the eco-warriors but for the time being, I am happy to drive along in my old Volvo. I love sitting on the M1 on a Friday afternoon in my 1000 quid 940 looking at the guy next to me in his 75000 quid Cayenne or Range Rover Sport. At 10 mph, our cars are equally fast, equally comfortable and I don't need to have a flash car to show off my abilities. I have four kids to indicate functionality.

[swedish brick]

The 2 above posts make excellent points, you can see modern cars are not designed to be around that long because they are now designed and made from materials that have to be recyclable, this was never thaught about with old cars. Dealers stopped caring about the cars as soon as it left the showroom. Now there is talk of manufacturers having to pay the disposal fee for their products in the future as they become 'life expired'.

Your point about the ecu for an s60 in 20 years time is true. Look how quick computers etc go out of date, cars will soon be the same as technology advances so quickly. Who would have thaught 30-40 years ago most cars would have things like ABS and air con etc!
The thing I just cant see is how, for example Rover could build such excellent cars as the P4, P5 and P6 and then be making the cars they did until recently, hows that progress!