To strip or not to strip

[68jackh]

After some advice.
The Amazon i bought from a dealer in SA is here and I'm due to collect it soon. I was thinking of using it a bit before putting it away for the winter. I am now thinking to get it in the garage and start working on it.
I was going to check it over for any structural defects and then start fixing it up.
I was going to strip it underneath and re coat with hammerite, then remove clean and powder coat the rear and front cross members etc. and fit new suspension.
Then do the inside, strip clean and do some sort of coating/paint before refitting everything.
Would you recommend a re-wire at this stage (it's a 66 estate) as it would be easier?
I'll be removing the engine and gearbox before fitting a type 9 which has been rebuilt, (is a short shift kit useful).
Any tips would be gratefully received.
I'm in Hertfordshire in the UK and not too bad with the tools but you can never get too much helpful advice.
Thanks in advance.
Jack

[Army]

Originally Posted by 68jackh

After some advice.
The Amazon i bought from a dealer in SA is here and I'm due to collect it soon. I was thinking of using it a bit before putting it away for the winter. I am now thinking to get it in the garage and start working on it.
I was going to check it over for any structural defects and then start fixing it up.
I was going to strip it underneath and re coat with hammerite, then remove clean and powder coat the rear and front cross members etc. and fit new suspension.
Then do the inside, strip clean and do some sort of coating/paint before refitting everything.
Would you recommend a re-wire at this stage (it's a 66 estate) as it would be easier?
I'll be removing the engine and gearbox before fitting a type 9 which has been rebuilt, (is a short shift kit useful).
Any tips would be gratefully received.
I'm in Hertfordshire in the UK and not too bad with the tools but you can never get too much helpful advice.
Thanks in advance.
Jack

It depends why you bought the car. Did you buy it to drive or as a project / tinkering object?

On the whole if you want to drive the vehicle I would do as little as possible. Consider the first six months to twelve months as an extended test drive. There's bound to be something that will need attention.

The danger of pulling things to bits too soon is that you end up with the "Forth Bridge effect" - you start with something - find something else - if you are not careful you will keep taking things apart and end up with a pile of bits. I've done this for four vehicles in my life and still haven't learnt!

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Note about Hammerite =>

I quite like it for parts on a vehicle where they need a bit of help but will probably have to be helped later on. I only use it on whole components.

If you want to use it to stop rust I think you need to lower expectations. It is kinda OK but as a single component paint it isn't going to get anywhere near to a two component solution.

Hammerite is not very good at being chip resistant. It scratches easily and when applied by brush will more often than not look pretty crappy especially if you use the gloss top coats.

I think Hammerite has its place but I would argue not on the underside of a car.

Even though the recipe in Europe has been changed by Axo Nobel (who make it here) I think (think) it is still an MEK thinner based paint. This can cause trouble when used with conventional automotive paints.

######

If you are worried about the underside of the vehicle I would consider Dinitrol products. (Make sure you read and understand the advice - especially if injecting products into cavities - it is possible to cause more trouble than leaving stuff bare)

######

On the whole the biggest trouble a vehicle has coming from a warm dry-ish climate to Northern Europe is the condition of its seals. On the whole water flows downwards - examine all seals before driving in the rain.

There is a product called Aerospace303 that used to be sold by Frosts in the UK. This stuff is excellent stuff for looking after seals.

[Burdekin]

Get it on a lift and have a good poke around.

If I remember correctly are you not retired? If so I'd think twice about trying to strip the underneath by lying on the ground unless you have access to a lift. It's a horrible and hard job upside down on the ground. There is a company near Glasgow called Preserve and Protect and will strip all the old underseal and rust proof the estate for about £700. They will also do any welding that is needed. Will be similar companies in England but they have a good reputation.

The suspension can be a pain to do especially if lying on the ground without proper tools. Up to you but probably money well spent to book her into a garage to do the suspension and alignment.

You can then concentrate on the nicer jobs over winter and tinker away.

[Bob Meadows]

I would avoid using Hammerite- if ever a paint is over exaggerated then this is it:~
As always preparation is the key- clean all surfaces as best you can & if down to bare metal give it a coat of Jenolite rust remover/converter (remove heavy rust) once dry paint the areas with a Zink rich primer or Red Oxide primer.

Top coat in something like chassis black or one of the better brands rust preventative paints. Finish with the likes Dinatrol wax treatment.

The proper base treatments of the metal are the key to keeping rust at bay.
Bob.

[Army]

Originally Posted by Bob Meadows

I would avoid using Hammerite- if ever a paint is over exaggerated then this is it:~
As always preparation is the key- clean all surfaces as best you can & if down to bare metal give it a coat of Jenolite rust remover/converter (remove heavy rust) once dry paint the areas with a Zink rich primer or Red Oxide primer.

Top coat in something like chassis black or one of the better brands rust preventative paints. Finish with the likes Dinatrol wax treatment.

The proper base treatments of the metal are the key to keeping rust at bay.
Bob.

For the sake of discussion (I'm not trying to be argumentative!) there's a chap here in Holland who has been doing a test for the best part of a decade on bits of metal covered by many different rust stopping / rust protective products and paints =>

http://www.oldtimerautosite.nl/roest_test.htm

It is all in Dutch so if you coan't get google to translate it properly I can help

The latest update was from last year (it has been whittled down to the few remaining products of which Hammerite is one) is here =>

http://www.oldtimerautosite.nl/updat...maart_2019.htm

[Wagon Sailor]

Originally Posted by Army

On the whole if you want to drive the vehicle I would do as little as possible. Consider the first six months to twelve months as an extended test drive. There's bound to be something that will need attention.

The danger of pulling things to bits too soon is that you end up with the "Forth Bridge effect" - you start with something - find something else - if you are not careful you will keep taking things apart and end up with a pile of bits.

Sound advice!

[Underdrive]

Originally Posted by Army

For the sake of discussion (I'm not trying to be argumentative!) there's a chap here in Holland who has been doing a test for the best part of a decade on bits of metal covered by many different rust stopping / rust protective products and paints =>

http://www.oldtimerautosite.nl/roest_test.htm

It is all in Dutch so if you coan't get google to translate it properly I can help

The latest update was from last year (it has been whittled down to the few remaining products of which Hammerite is one) is here =>

http://www.oldtimerautosite.nl/updat...maart_2019.htm

That's a very interesting comparison test, a lot more scientific than anecdotal comments. I haven't heard of a lot of the other paints tested and I haven't used many products other than Hammerite but I have always found their products to be excellent if used as per the instructions. I have a '93 Land Rover Discovery that I had to weld quite a lot of new metal into the chassis 6 years ago, painted with hammerite smooth followed by a single coat of Waxoyl on the whole chassis. This is a workhorse that is used and abused, I didn't take that much care to prepare well and covered over surface rust. I live literally next to the sea, they salt the roads in winter, I often need to drive across fields with horse muck in them and even sometimes on a beach. I only jet wash underneath a couple of times a year the chassis is still solid and not showing any signs of rust yet. If I followed recommendations to spray more Waxoyl on every year or so I feel sure it would last even longer.

[Army]

Originally Posted by Underdrive

That's a very interesting comparison test, a lot more scientific than anecdotal comments. I haven't heard of a lot of the other paints tested and I haven't used many products other than Hammerite but I have always found their products to be excellent if used as per the instructions. I have a '93 Land Rover Discovery that I had to weld quite a lot of new metal into the chassis 6 years ago, painted with hammerite smooth followed by a single coat of Waxoyl on the whole chassis. This is a workhorse that is used and abused, I didn't take that much care to prepare well and covered over surface rust. I live literally next to the sea, they salt the roads in winter, I often need to drive across fields with horse muck in them and even sometimes on a beach. I only jet wash underneath a couple of times a year the chassis is still solid and not showing any signs of rust yet. If I followed recommendations to spray more Waxoyl on every year or so I feel sure it would last even longer.

Seems to me that Hammerite is a bit like Marmite - you either love it or hate it!

I've gone through a large part of the products listed on that site. Some of them are firmly aimed at the classic car restoration market which unfortunately comes with a bit of an Emperor's new clothes sales pitch and very high price tags.

About a decade ago POR-15 was all the rage - when you add up the cost of the special degreaser and the special treatment fluid and then the paint and then the tie coat primer if you want to paint on top of it => second mortgage time.

I sorry to say - hope it doesn't offend (!) - that I am often shocked on Landyzone about just how bad Land Rovers of your vehicle's generation rust. I thought my 1965 LWB was a POS but actually considering its age it looks a lot better than some of the Discoveries

If you ever get to the stage where the jet washer removes lumps of paint again may I recommend you consider Zinga? Folks on the Series 2a club forum often mention Bilthammer products too. I get the impression those products fit into the somewhat slapdash fix it quick Land Rover world (!) {Sorry there I go again}

[Underdrive]

Army, no offence taken. We all have opinions whether we voice them or not, I personally would rather hear them whether I agree with them or not (particularly from politicians). All vehicles have some bad points and you have to love Landies to tolerate their's but I was fairly lucky with mine that it was repairable, maybe due to having just 70k on the clock. I previously had a '61 series 2a that didn't need any welding. Discos certainly do have an ability to rust very well usually. At least you can buy a new galvanised chassis for a series LR.
I do think some Amazon owners do worry too much about the ability of the paint they use on a car that has lasted 50 to 60 years already and will probably spend the rest of it's life in a dry garage and only come out in dry weather a few times a year for shows. As with many products and tools there is often a feeling that if something is new and expensive it must be better than everything else. They will pay for it and be happy with the results but never know if something cheaper would have done just as well. Just my opinion