400 series Deathtrap ??

Jul 2nd, 2003, 08:48

In a discussion covering the EuroNCAP testresults on another forum someone mentioned this
http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/...20&pageid=5587
link to the reults of a comprehensive UK study on roadaccidents covering the period 1996 - 2000.
Having read the report I am really lost for words as the Volvo 400 series is one of the worst performers .
What's going on ?
Is it just that you UK guys and galls can't drive properly or .... ?

levensnevel

a smile every mile

Dan F · Jul 2nd, 2003, 09:21

Hi.

I have had a crash in one of my old 440s and it escaped with barely a scratch (relatively speaking) and the other car was totalled.

I have seen a crash between a 440 and a Vauxhall (something) and the Vauxhall was the one with damage.

Stats are funny things and can be manipulated with ease.

When you look at the size of the impact bars in the doors, the strengthening member in the roof and the other safety features that the 400 series have, they are not unsafe at all. Perhaps it is because more recent cars are all stronger and safer than the 400s, that these figures appear bad.

The 400 series was designed in the 80s remember. a new Renault Megane would eat it for breakfast safety wise now, but compare the equivalent Renault model in 1990!! Different story!

Later,
Dan.

Jul 2nd, 2003, 09:48

Yes Dan,

I know, you can prove anything with statistics :)
And allthough I have not encountered any roadaccidents with my Cheese Wedge yet (hope I never will) I am pretty sure that my experience than will be similar to what you have had to endure. I really wonder why the 400 series stand out so negatively as even the Vauxhall Cavalier has a better score in this study.
So if anyone has any thought about that, please enlighten me ;)

levensnevel

a smile every mile

Martin Cox · Jul 2nd, 2003, 20:29

Perhaps slightly off the topic, but interestingly this same website features their results for the Volvo 200 series in the small/medium sized car section...! Funny, I'd never thought of my old 245 as a small car.

Martin Cox

Jul 3rd, 2003, 06:57

Looking at those figures I have to ask, what number of these accidents were stop start, and how many were high speed? How many were side, or rear, or frontal impacts? How many were wearing seatbelts? Pretty useless figures really....

After experiences of my friends and family I now take EuroNCAP figures with a pinch of salt as well (all were driving 3* cars, all came out far better than the other cars).

I was more than happy with how strong the 440 I had felt, and as Dan has said witht he side bars, and roof bars they were certainly safe.

Stu

Dan F · Jul 3rd, 2003, 15:13

Just highlights how useless bare stats are!

240 a small car! :7

Dan.

Jul 6th, 2003, 10:24

Personally speaking, other than keeping a Government Statistician in paid employment, I can draw no meaningful conclusions from the report at all.

Unless you look at all the statistics (including road accidents where there were no injuries), you cannot draw any real conclusion.

As a taxpayer can I opt not to employ this statistician and instead take a reduction in Road Tax?

Deebel

Jul 6th, 2003, 23:30

we've just had a look at the website and what a bag of Bo**ocks!

There is no data supplied to show the make up of the figures at all. So the injuries we "higher" but an early Saab 900 would have killed or seriously injured 3 more people than a 400 series Volvo!

Again the other manipulative point is there may be more injuries but the accidents they were involved in could be more severe than some other cars accidents.

For instance - Saab design their cars to withstand an impact with an Elk after one of their directors died after an accident involving one - Renault design their cars to meet the NCAP safety standards but hopefully you wouldn't be driving into a wall at 30mph head on - the NCAP tests need to reflect REAL driving conditions and figures should not be released until at least year after a car has been on the market so some sort of data could be analysed of how it actually performed in real accidents - sorry i know that sounds morbid but its not meant to.

Would we then see an decrease in the number of stars the dear old Renault gets??? - Who knows..........

Jul 31st, 2003, 19:52

If the stats are just bull, then we are free from the issue of objectivity, thus, free to use instinct, which puts my family in my 480 and 850 feeling safer than many.

Off topic, but does anyone really want a uk national speed limit increase? Id rather hurt the environment less and queue less at the exit ramp anyway.

Cheers Tim

Jul 2nd, 2003, 08:48	#1
levensnevel Guest Location:	400 series Deathtrap ?? In a discussion covering the EuroNCAP testresults on another forum someone mentioned this http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/...20&pageid=5587 link to the reults of a comprehensive UK study on roadaccidents covering the period 1996 - 2000. Having read the report I am really lost for words as the Volvo 400 series is one of the worst performers . What's going on ? Is it just that you UK guys and galls can't drive properly or .... ? levensnevel a smile every mile

Jul 2nd, 2003, 09:21	#2
Dan F Premier Member Last Online: Apr 7th, 2008 13:05 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Worcs	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Hi. I have had a crash in one of my old 440s and it escaped with barely a scratch (relatively speaking) and the other car was totalled. I have seen a crash between a 440 and a Vauxhall (something) and the Vauxhall was the one with damage. Stats are funny things and can be manipulated with ease. When you look at the size of the impact bars in the doors, the strengthening member in the roof and the other safety features that the 400 series have, they are not unsafe at all. Perhaps it is because more recent cars are all stronger and safer than the 400s, that these figures appear bad. The 400 series was designed in the 80s remember. a new Renault Megane would eat it for breakfast safety wise now, but compare the equivalent Renault model in 1990!! Different story! Later, Dan.

Jul 2nd, 2003, 09:48	#3
levensnevel Guest Location:	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Yes Dan, I know, you can prove anything with statistics :) And allthough I have not encountered any roadaccidents with my Cheese Wedge yet (hope I never will) I am pretty sure that my experience than will be similar to what you have had to endure. I really wonder why the 400 series stand out so negatively as even the Vauxhall Cavalier has a better score in this study. So if anyone has any thought about that, please enlighten me ;) levensnevel a smile every mile

Jul 2nd, 2003, 20:29	#4
Martin Cox VOC Member Last Online: Apr 24th, 2024 09:24 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hull	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Perhaps slightly off the topic, but interestingly this same website features their results for the Volvo 200 series in the small/medium sized car section...! Funny, I'd never thought of my old 245 as a small car. Martin Cox

Jul 3rd, 2003, 06:57	#5
Mav_UK Guest Location:	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Looking at those figures I have to ask, what number of these accidents were stop start, and how many were high speed? How many were side, or rear, or frontal impacts? How many were wearing seatbelts? Pretty useless figures really.... After experiences of my friends and family I now take EuroNCAP figures with a pinch of salt as well (all were driving 3* cars, all came out far better than the other cars). I was more than happy with how strong the 440 I had felt, and as Dan has said witht he side bars, and roof bars they were certainly safe. Stu

Jul 3rd, 2003, 15:13	#6
Dan F Premier Member Last Online: Apr 7th, 2008 13:05 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Worcs	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Just highlights how useless bare stats are! 240 a small car! :7 Dan.

Jul 6th, 2003, 10:24	#7
deebel Guest Location:	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? Personally speaking, other than keeping a Government Statistician in paid employment, I can draw no meaningful conclusions from the report at all. Unless you look at all the statistics (including road accidents where there were no injuries), you cannot draw any real conclusion. As a taxpayer can I opt not to employ this statistician and instead take a reduction in Road Tax? Deebel

Jul 6th, 2003, 23:30	#8
Joe440Andrew460 Guest Location:	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? we've just had a look at the website and what a bag of Bo**ocks! There is no data supplied to show the make up of the figures at all. So the injuries we "higher" but an early Saab 900 would have killed or seriously injured 3 more people than a 400 series Volvo! Again the other manipulative point is there may be more injuries but the accidents they were involved in could be more severe than some other cars accidents. For instance - Saab design their cars to withstand an impact with an Elk after one of their directors died after an accident involving one - Renault design their cars to meet the NCAP safety standards but hopefully you wouldn't be driving into a wall at 30mph head on - the NCAP tests need to reflect REAL driving conditions and figures should not be released until at least year after a car has been on the market so some sort of data could be analysed of how it actually performed in real accidents - sorry i know that sounds morbid but its not meant to. Would we then see an decrease in the number of stars the dear old Renault gets??? - Who knows..........

Jul 31st, 2003, 19:52	#9
tim960 Guest Location:	RE: 400 series Deathtrap ?? If the stats are just bull, then we are free from the issue of objectivity, thus, free to use instinct, which puts my family in my 480 and 850 feeling safer than many. Off topic, but does anyone really want a uk national speed limit increase? Id rather hurt the environment less and queue less at the exit ramp anyway. Cheers Tim

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